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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2012, 09:57 PM
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here is the pictures of the pistons.

https://mail-attachment.googleuserco...Dxn8g&sadssc=1


https://mail-attachment.googleuserco...pUTWS6LhHtenGs

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2012, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbckillion View Post
This is what I have

350 block .60 over
Stock connecting rods
Flat top 4 valve relief pistons (I'm pretty sire they're off brand)
Edelbrock victor Jr. Intake
Dart iron eagle ss heads
Stock 350 crank turned ten thousandths under
Hold on a minute. Before you can know what it is you need to do, you need to know what the heads are- exactly. Just saying Iron Eagle SS doesn't tell the whole story.

There are several different Iron Eagle SS heads. Some are 1.94" intake x 1.5" exhaust valve size, others have the 2.02" x 1.6" valves. They can have a 67, 72, or 76cc chamber size. They can have the '86- back intake bolt pattern, or the '87-'95 72 degree center bolt angle pattern or the Vortec pattern, although this shouldn't be an issue if the intake you have matches the heads. So start by seeing exactly what it is you have to work with.

Generally speaking, these heads as cast are good for around 450 hp or maybe a little more if the parts that go w/them (cam, compression, etc.) are chosen carefully.

The problem w/making big power w/these heads is the relatively small 165cc port volume/cross section. Now, if you wanted to build it to make 400 HP and add a 100 shot of nitrous, that's doable w/o any drama, other than a proper set up and tune. But 500 hp naturally aspirated is not going to come easy, at least not as cast, or as easy as a different head would be- like the Platinum series.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2012, 09:32 AM
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(to know how much horse power your heads can produce,you need to flow test them.)

post number 13
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2012, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
Hold on a minute. Before you can know what it is you need to do, you need to know what the heads are- exactly. Just saying Iron Eagle SS doesn't tell the whole story.

There are several different Iron Eagle SS heads. Some are 1.94" intake x 1.5" exhaust valve size, others have the 2.02" x 1.6" valves. They can have a 67, 72, or 76cc chamber size. They can have the '86- back intake bolt pattern, or the '87-'95 72 degree center bolt angle pattern or the Vortec pattern, although this shouldn't be an issue if the intake you have matches the heads. So start by seeing exactly what it is you have to work with.

Generally speaking, these heads as cast are good for around 450 hp or maybe a little more if the parts that go w/them (cam, compression, etc.) are chosen carefully.

The problem w/making big power w/these heads is the relatively small 165cc port volume/cross section. Now, if you wanted to build it to make 400 HP and add a 100 shot of nitrous, that's doable w/o any drama, other than a proper set up and tune. But 500 hp naturally aspirated is not going to come easy, at least not as cast, or as easy as a different head would be- like the Platinum series.
Vales are 2.02 x 1.60
Combustion chamber 67cc

Supposidly the heads have been shaved so I'll try to cc them tonight if I have time. And how do you figure the intake runner size?
Also how do you know which bolt pattern it its.
10024267- part number
ID code is 21
I got this info from dart block and identification website but I did measure the valves myself.
The chart says these heads have heat crossover and " .125 has been removed from rocker stand for use with guide plates".

Here is the link
Identifying Dart Heads and Blocks | Dartheads.com
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2012, 12:02 PM
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If I told you to put a 4 bbl carb on your engine,wouldnt you ask what size?

If I said use a holley,wouldnt you ask what size?
If I said take the choke out for racing,wouldnt you still want to know what size?

If you dont know what the heads flow,how can you make 500 hp?
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2012, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
If I told you to put a 4 bbl carb on your engine,wouldnt you ask what size?

If I said use a holley,wouldnt you ask what size?
If I said take the choke out for racing,wouldnt you still want to know what size?

If you dont know what the heads flow,how can you make 500 hp?
Im not sure what you mean?
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2012, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
Sounds like your on the right track dispite the crappy advice you have gotten.

Flat tops that arent marked are usally good ones not cheap ones. All cheap rebuilder pistons are marked under the skirt or head of the piston.

Can you show us a picture of the piston heads. So i can see what the four valve reliefs look like. Maybe able to figure your compression ratio.

Since you dont have cr numbers your not getting the correct info needed to proceed. With good compression and no other big problems you have the parts to build a 400 hp combo. Just stab in a comp cam 294s solid flat cam and lifters. This will get you at 400 range and 100 shot of n2o and your at your goal.

To make 500hp with out turbos or nos you will need to spend a lot more cash. Also its a lot easier if your running e85 or race gas. Snce 11:1 compression is needed for a flat 500 with only 360 cubes. This will also need aluminum heads and high rpm rotating assembly. You can get 400 out of most junk yard short blocks but 500 is a hard number to hit when the budget is tight.

Also no reason your 400 hp combo wont take a 200 shot of juice. And put you into the 600 range. But since you dont have a car i would go for the 400 combo then tweak things up once its in the car and runing at the track.

Most fast cars at the drag strip ran a 14 on day one. Then worked with tuning and tweaking until they cpuld push then kicking and screaming into the 10s or 9s whatever the owner can get out of his combo.

Fox body mustangs are fast at the track and dont require a massize amount of suspension updates but will still need some work as any car will to run a fast number. Plus it drives ford guys nuts to see a mustang running good with a chevy motor.
i posted the pics of the pistons. i found the numbers and with a lot of google searcing i found them. they are enginetech pistons.


They are cast, stock-type replacement with a flat head and 4-Valve reliefs
5/64" Top Comp Ring
5/64" (2nd ) Comp Ring
3/16" deep Oil Ring
Comp. Ht = 1.540"
Pin Dia = .9273"
Engintech Part no. P1534.060
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2012, 12:33 PM
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You need to take the heads,1 set of valves with springs and retainers to someone that has a flow bench.That tech will put a big vacuum on your heads and test how much air he can pull through your castings at a few different set valve lifts. The numbers,expressed in CFM( cubic feet per minute) will tell you what lift cam you need/want and will give you an idea how much horse power can be extracted from those heads.Your job then is to match the short block,intake and exhaust manifolds and fuel management system to give those numbers.
You want you exhaust flow on the heads to be at least 75% of the intake numbers or you will need exhaust side work and or a split duration cam. The intake flow number time about 2 will give you the potential number of street hp available,,,
example: if your castings flow 235 cfm on the intake side and the exhaust side flows around 190 cfm,then that engine could make 470 hp with careful planning,or over 500 if the engine builder really does an excellent job matching parts
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2012, 01:30 PM
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budget 500hp 360sbc

sbckillion, I was going back through the posts again and saw where you listed the specs on the pistons you have. Those pistons are the rebuilders type pistons. They are about .020 shorter from the center of the pin to the top than a good flat top piston. That means when it comes time to figure your quench which .040 is what you want. You will have .045 + the thickness of your head gasket.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdminter59 View Post
sbckillion, I was going back through the posts again and saw where you listed the specs on the pistons you have. Those pistons are the rebuilders type pistons. They are about .020 shorter from the center of the pin to the top than a good flat top piston. That means when it comes time to figure your quench which .040 is what you want. You will have .045 + the thickness of your head gasket.
i doubt i will end up reusing these pistons. i may go with some of the budget friendly forged.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2012, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbckillion View Post
i doubt i will end up reusing these pistons. i may go with some of the budget friendly forged.
Kb hypers are pretty cheap and light wieght really not bad choice for the bucks. Also not bad for turbo but fully forged would be better for full on n2o build.

I would use them to measure the deck hieght and make sure the numbers are right and the engine hasent been decked usally by .060 over they will have decked the block at least once.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:01 PM
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in my opinion, a trip to the flow bench on a low budget build on an off the shelf set of heads is a waste of money.
according to darts info, those heads flow 232 and 138 @.500" lift. you can search around for more numbers to confirm this, and spend the flow bench testing money for.something else.
those pistons are fine for taking grandma to the grocery store but have no place in any sort of performance engine.
kb pistons are ok, and would work in this application, but need careful assembly and tuning, something that may be a bit over your head being a first time builder. a set of forged speed pro pistons are very durable, can be ordered for a cheap ring pack, and will stand up to nitrous down the road if you wanted to run it. they are more expensive than a kb or but lots cheaper than a mahle, diamond or other high end forged piston.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2012, 02:09 PM
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If toast has accurate flow information,then those heads wont produce any where near 500 hp.and it will need a dual pattern cam
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2012, 03:52 PM
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Toast has the the correct flow numbers, I've been reading about the heads online for the last hour and it looks lime its gonna take a lot of mach. Work to get 500. I'm always willing to learn things so what do you guys think about doing a port and polish job myself? I'd need to do some reading and find out how much is "too much". Don't want too much flow and be a dog in the bottom end.
Guess I need to just get compression ratio first, before I focus on anything else. I used the calculator that Compton or toast posted and without all the correct info needed, looks like I gonna be around 12 something.

And no this motor isn't going in a some rice burner, it will be at least some type of old GM steel....as for my budget, I really couldn't give you guys an exact amounts. It just week by week paycheck right now, so let's say 5k is the max.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:05 PM
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I gave you the formula for hp and heads,get the heads done,or buy heads that fit your desire
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