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Old 07-31-2008, 09:10 PM
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buffing by hand

I am painting some interior trim pieces on my car with urethane single stage black. I am getting a little bit of dust in the finish and some orange peel. So I am first wetsanding with 1500 on a hard rubber block (using water and soap) and then I am wetsanding with 2000 grit on a hard rubber block. Then using a cotton towel I am buffing by hand with 3M Perfect-it rubbing compound Fine Cut #39002(says for hand or machine and removes 1200 or finer scratches) and then following it up with new cotton towel and 3M Perfect-it foam polishing pad glaze swirl mark remover #39009. These are the compounds my local auto paint shop recommended for buffing small pieces by hand.

Well anyway, When I hold the peces in the light I can see what looks like sanding scratches from the sandpaper. The scratches are in the direction I sanded with the 1500 and 2000. I also tried using a soft foam block with the 1500 and 2000 and ended up with the same scratch results.

Can anyone tell me if the 3M compounds I am using are adequate or should I be using something else or should I just give up and leave the scratches and stay frsutrated.

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Old 07-31-2008, 09:43 PM
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Really anxious to hear feedback on this 1...I also used this method with 1500, then Presta ultra cuting cream, then Maguire's #82 swirl remover. Like you, I changed polishing rags, didn't see the scratches till I washed the panel and moved back into shop under good flourescent lighting. I noticed a slight haze, then the scratches appeared. Looking forward for opinions, just letting ya know that you've got company!!
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Old 07-31-2008, 10:34 PM
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THanks for chiming in jerw55 cause I was just looking at the Presta Ultra cutting cream thinking it was going to be the magic bullet I needed.
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Old 08-01-2008, 01:23 AM
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i cant speak for everyone but from what i have seen sometimes even on the finer gits when you fold your paper and stuff it and make sharper edges witch can make a more agressive scratch, witch may be what you are seeing. when it is folded over the sides of your block may be causing that, maybe. the buffer at our shop will sand down then use some fine sand paper called tolex (sp?) dry witch he says is like a 2500 or something like that to help cut back on those type of marks. i myself have used the 3m that you used and thats one of the best i have found but have only done it with the foam pads (white to cut back to glaze then hand polish). good luck sorry if im not much help
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Old 08-01-2008, 07:06 PM
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Put your buffer in a bench vice with the pad facing down toward the ground.. Lock it down and buff out your pieces while you hold them in your hand..

Far far better way to buff small pieces and you will get the finish you are after by removing the sanding scratches..

Also it depends on the clear as to how easily something buffs or not by hand.. The harder the clear is or gets, the tougher it will be to remove sanding scratches by hand
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Old 08-01-2008, 07:11 PM
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Forgot to mention, I also soaked the paper in water for at least 10 min. before sanding. Honestly think I just didn't spend enough time on either buffing stages. It's tricky because the compound seems to fill those micro scratches making it appear ready for the next stage but after the compound is washed away thoroughly the scratches reappear. Really cosmic man....sorry for that
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Old 08-01-2008, 09:14 PM
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I rub a lot of small parts and jambs out by hand, and sometimes do the complete car exterior by hand as the final stage in polishing. You don't need a block for the 2000 grit stage and for really small parts and jambs I don't use a block at all. I think you're probably not sanding enough with the 2000 grit and then having troubles removing the remaining 1500 grit scratches. Another thing that really helps is to use the 3M 3000 grit or the Abralon 4000 grit pads for the final sanding.
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Old 08-04-2008, 12:53 PM
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Dang this is frustrating.....I tried the buffer holding it in the vise and burnt through the paint on one of my small parts withing the first 10 seconds. I also spent some more time with the 2000 grit on some pieces and I still have a mess of sanding scratches showing after I apply the rubbing compound and the swirl mark remover (I rubbed it like there was no tomorrow too). I'm still using a cotton cloth.

My 3M rubbing coumpound is 5 years old do you think that is a factor? I honestly dont think the rubbing coumpound is taking out very many scratches at all.

How bout the 3M Super Duty rubbing coumpound supposed to be a more coarse compound would that help?

I saw some guys video on autobody101.com where he used the 3M Super Duty compound and it took out 800 grit wet scratches....of course he was using a buffer though.

So, Badbob what compounds do you use when you are buffing by hand? If your successful at it I think there has got to be something wrong with my process.

Heres how i sanded. Clearcoat had 18 hours to dry.

Sanded with 800 dry finishing film disc
Sanded with 1200 dry with finishing film disc
Sanded with 1500 wet rubber block
Sanded with 2000 wet with rubber block
Used the 3M rubbing coumpound
Used the 3M swirl mark remover

Last edited by esahlin; 08-04-2008 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 08-04-2008, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esahlin
Dang this is frustrating.....I tried the buffer holding it in the vise and burnt through the paint on one of my small parts withing the first 10 seconds. I also spent some more time with the 2000 grit on some pieces and I still have a mess of sanding scratches showing after I apply the rubbing compound and the swirl mark remover (I rubbed it like there was no tomorrow too). I'm still using a cotton cloth.

My 3M rubbing coumpound is 5 years old do you think that is a factor? I honestly dont think the rubbing coumpound is taking out very many scratches at all.

How bout the 3M Super Duty rubbing coumpound supposed to be a more coarse compound would that help?

I saw some guys video on autobody101.com where he used the 3M Super Duty compound and it took out 800 grit wet scratches....of course he was using a buffer though.

So, Badbob what compounds do you use when you are buffing by hand? If your successful at it I think there has got to be something wrong with my process.

Heres how i sanded. Clearcoat had 18 hours to dry.

Sanded with 800 dry finishing film disc
Sanded with 1200 dry with finishing film disc
Sanded with 1500 wet rubber block
Sanded with 2000 wet with rubber block
Used the 3M rubbing coumpound
Used the 3M swirl mark remover

The first thing that you should do is gather up that can of red 3M and that can of white 3M RUBBING compound, walk directly to the trash can and dump it in for removal from the property ASAP . There are too many professional products available. Me? I use wet 1500 and 2000, Presta 1500 and Presta Swirl Remover. You can also use the Presta 3000. There are others that are just as good, such as the Meguiare's 1 and 2 plus their swirl remover and a host of their other prep products in their Pro line. Quality of paper can be a factor as well. I personally like the Norton W&D papers better then the 3M, but both are good as well as Mirka. Harbor Fright ....yuk, barf. Home Depot/Lowes is house paint quality for the most part and not to cut and buff a car .

You might not have a quality buffing pad - there are wool and foam plus variations for heavy cutting and others for fine finishing. Also - rotational speed is important. Too fast - oops, burned off the CC. Too slow....yawnnnnn....when will this be done??

You need the right "stuff" to do a quality job.

Dave W

PS: 18 hours to dry clear MAY not have been long enough. I wait several days to several weeks
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Last edited by Irelands child; 08-04-2008 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:01 PM
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Well, experimented some more. Fired up the electric buffer again held it in place on the table and lightly applied my small trim piece (these are trim pieces that I painted single stage black and then clear coated. THey are about 3 inches wide and go around the back window on the interior) against the buffer (McGuires red cutting foam pad) with my 3M rubbing compound; being careful this time trying not to burn through the paint. Did a bit with the rubbing compound.....changed the buffing pad (to yellow McGuire's Foam pad) and applied the swirl mark remover. Result: sanding scratches gone!!. Mirror shine appears!!!

looks like I research getting some kind of small buffing tool that I can use to buff my dash panel....since that is my next attempt.

Last edited by esahlin; 08-04-2008 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:50 PM
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can anyone recommend some kind of buffing adaptor/tool that fits in a die grinder and is small and works with paint buffing. Ive seen the 3 inch wide buffing discs similar to the 8" stuff but wondering if there is anything smaller?
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Old 08-04-2008, 06:24 PM
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Google "CP7201P". It's a small air buffer kit with about a 4" diameter wool and foam pads. I use it on motorcycle parts.
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
can anyone recommend some kind of buffing adaptor/tool that fits in a die grinder and is small and works with paint buffing.
Be very careful using a die grinder. The rpms are too high and you will burn through. Better to get a small buffer made for doing what you want. With a die grinder, if you cut the air pressure back then it does not have the torque to run under a load.
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:37 PM
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3M's extra cut compound works well for hand jiving those parts, finish up with finesse-it II. The Extra cut compound cuts fast but then breaks down and polishes up nice. Stay away from Superduty-I swear to God the last time I tried that compound it was like someone put heavy silica sand in the stuff! Also, washing the parts between stages helps eliminate cross contamination of all the abrasives.
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