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Old 06-12-2005, 09:04 PM
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Building a 302...

I'm saving up some cash to build me a engine for my truck next summer. I will be able to save up about... well, let's say $1500 to be safe. I already have a good block that I can use along with various other parts (I have a 5.0L EFI out of a 1987 Mercury Colony Park and a 1980ish 302 that was in my truck when I got it). The truck is a 1990 Ford Ranger... not exactly a hot rod, but it's about the love for speed, right? The engine in it has a 600cfm 4bbl Edelbrock Carb and a Performer RPM Intake... I'm not sure what the heads, cam, etc. are.

Well, like I said, I want to build up the block... I was thinking of going with GT40 aluminum heads assembled (should I go for the 160cc intake runner, or spend the extra $200 for the 178cc IR?), I would like to use the Performer RPM Intake I already have, and a matching performer rpm cam kit.

Now.. for the questions...

Is there a way to find out what cam, crankshaft, heads, and pistons I have? If so, how?

What pistons should I get if the ones I have aren't sufficient? I'm aiming for 300hp/300ftlb on 87 pump gas. Is this achievable?

One of the cylinders has a small groove in it.. not even a groove really, it looks scuffed. Is this a problem?

If I'm totally on the wrong track here, what would you suggest for a budget buildup for my truck? It'll be used for light/medium off-roading and occaional towing, So I'm more worried about low-end torque than big hp, as It'll probably never see speeds over 70mph.

Thanks in advance for any help, and sorry that the post is so disorganized.. I'm typing it up as my brain thinks it out. ;p

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Old 06-13-2005, 01:29 PM
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Well, I went back out and grabbed a few numbers off of some parts.

The pistons say 272AP on the side, and on the top they say .030, So I'm assuming that means they are .030" oversized. Does that mean the block i'm using is bored or are these pistons 289ci pistons oversized to fit a 302?

The crankshaft casting # is E1AE-AA.

The Heads have the following cast on them... OK29 and C8OE... I'm coming up with the heads being from a 68 GT350, Does that sound right? What are the specs on them?

The connecting rods are 5.4", I measured them myself.

I haven't dug down to the camshaft yet, so I'm not sure what's going on with it.

Like I mentioned in my first post, I have an Edelbrock 600cfm 4bbl carb & Performer RPM Intake.

Based on this information, and a $1500 budget, what should I do to it to obtain a good amount of power? What kind of power is being put out by this engine currently, assuming a mild cam..
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Old 06-13-2005, 04:26 PM
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The early 302 has been redone and has a 1981 crank in it. For $1500.00 you might want to consider an exchange engine.

(C8OE Cylinder Head Denotes 1968 Production 302- SHELBY Used Them Also- Nothing Fancy)

-JASPER PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS-

-JASPER 302/300HP ENGINE-



-MEL ENGINE FORUM-
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Old 06-13-2005, 04:34 PM
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An exchange engine? Meaning I should get new heads, pistons, camshaft, etc..? Are there any parts that are "good enough" to reuse in a rebuild? I have an engine from a 1987 Mercury Colony Park also, would that be a better subject for a rebuild?

BTW... Thanks for responding.
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Old 06-13-2005, 05:03 PM
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I think it will be cheaper and you will get a better outcome most likely of an exchange engine. You have limited funds so you have to invest them wisely. I don't know the cost of the HP offerings but the regular OEM is very reasonable for all the work you are going to be able to sidestep.

Your earlier 302 has already been done once (.030 over).

It is not a rule, just an option.
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Old 06-13-2005, 05:14 PM
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I'm sorry, but i'm really not following what you are suggesting. What OEM engine are you talking about? If you mean the stockl engine for the Ranger, that'd be more expensive because I'd have to purchase the engine and, for lack of a better word, un-swap it. The original engine swap was done by a backyard mechanic and very half-assed. I'd be better off junking the truck than trying to swap in a stock V6.

If that's not what you mean, I don't understand how I'd be sidestepping costs since I already have a good block... Wouldn't my original idea of building it up from a bare block be cheaper then using a totally different engine?
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Old 06-13-2005, 05:19 PM
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part identification

every part on your engine can be identified relatively easily if you know how to do it. Look for the part number and the part type, then just Google it and start sorting through the crap. I've had to do this one a few engines of my own, and while it does take a little time its fairly simple.
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Old 06-13-2005, 05:27 PM
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302

What I would do in your situation, take the pistons you have ,take the other eng you have and have the cyls bored to the pistons. have the eng bal, arp rod bolts installed in re built rods,have the crank ground, install a hv oilpump and a h/d o/p drive. the edelbrock cam is good for what you are trying to do. gt40 heads are a good buy and will work within your budget. the carb, and intake are good to go as is. just my 2 cents. go to corral .com and you will find many ford parts for sale.jim.
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Old 06-13-2005, 05:28 PM
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Best bet

Don't get a remanned engine. They tend to be built with the crappiest parts, abysmal camshafts, and lots of "shortcuts."

Build it yourself. If you want to do it right, and even maybe cheap, try to find a forged piston shortblock from a 87-93 'stang. They come with a reasonable 9:1 compression ratio and good pistons. Do a ring and bearing job, then put on the heads of your choice. World Products iron heads would work admirably, as well as a home port job on some E7TE heads. Stick in a 214/220@.050 hydraulic roller cam, (or one of the Ford roller cams, they are cheap @$150). Keep you intake and carb, and the stock Duraspark should work fine. Swap the converter for something around the 2200 rpm range.

Results? Decent mileage, a mild lopey idle, excellent streetability, and around 275 horsepower and plenty of torque.

There is a built 302 in my '78 Mont but it cost much more, has some more goodies like a Comp Cams XE 274 cam, forged domed pistons, MSD ignition, Edelbrock dual quads, and some other hot-rod "bling" bits.

Cheers,
Andy
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Old 06-13-2005, 05:33 PM
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FEDDO, why have the cylinders bored? The pistons fit perfectly into it. The engine i'm talking about was a working engine, it just sounded like a pile of poop.

BTW, are there 'casting' numbers on camshafts, also?
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Old 06-13-2005, 08:14 PM
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302

If a eng sounds like crap, you must think mechanical. you said you had a scuff mark. I am just trying to get you started in the right direction, noise,crap sounds= piston slap, rod bearings, main bearings, burnt valves. let us know what noises you hear,or what crap means to you.
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Old 06-13-2005, 08:40 PM
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I see where you are coming from now...

There is a good chance it may have just been the exhaust, because there was a exhaust leak at the donut gasket. There was also a pretty nasty oil leak, but I kept it added in. The sound wasn't my biggest problem, lately it had been very sluggish. With it floored, it topped out at 40mph. The fuel pump recently went out totally, so that may have been why it was getting sluggish, seemingly all of a sudden...

I was first planning on modding up the 1987 5.0L EFI engine out of my mom's old colony park to get up to about 200hp, but found out that with the SD EFI, it'd be near impossible. I was wanting the fuel injection, but after thinking about it I decided I'd check to see if the problems with the engine that was in the truck was the engine itself or a combo of the exhaust, fuel pump, etc.

Upon looking at the engine, the only problem I see is that scuff I mentioned. Pistons are solid, valves are fine, the engine is perfect except for that scuff. When I say scuff, I mean to a point where you can't even feel a difference. It feels smooth. Only about 1/4-1/2 of the thickness of a sheet of paper deep. It's about 1cm wide and the length of the piston stroke.

I'm not sure about the delicateness of the internals of an engine. I know it has to be near perfect, but I don't know how close to perfect is acceptable. What could a small scuff such as that do?
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Old 06-14-2005, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fearsomefairmont

Don't get a remanned engine. They tend to be built with the crappiest parts, abysmal camshafts, and lots of "shortcuts."

Build it yourself. If you want to do it right, and even maybe cheap...
It's going to have to be cheap for fifteen hundred bucks.

Jasper Performance Products

Quote:
“Class II Version - Ford 302” (Hydraulic Roller Camshaft)

Version Description:

The Class II Performance engine is for the serious performance minded person who needs power for a
specific application. These engines are built with heavy duty performance in mind. Special components
and procedures are selected and matched to obtain maximum performance for your application.

Not legal for sale or use in California or on pollution
controlled motor vehicles. Specifications subject to
change without notice.

300 hp (approx.) @ 5500 rpm • 321 ft. lbs. Torque @ 3700 rpm
Version Applications:

• Performance oriented cars and trucks
• Street Rods and restored muscle cars
• Vans and towing vehicles
• Small/medium size engines requiring good low speed torque
• O.E.M. replacement

Part Specifications:

• Approximate 8.75:1 compression ratio
• High performance rod bolts and nuts
• High rev lifters and performance valve
springs with retainers
• Double roller timing set
• Flat top hypereutectic pistons and moly rings
• Harmonic balancer
• High performance valves
• Class II camshafts
• High performance bearings
• High performance head gaskets

Machining Specifications:

• Kolene Salt Bath cleaning
• Three angle valve seat machining
• Precise surface finish measuring
• Square decking of block
• Main saddle align honing
• Electronically balanced engine assembly
• Torque plate honing
• Computerized boring
• Precision crankshaft machining, oil hole
chamfering and polishing
• Live testing

Camshaft Specifications:

• .050 Duration: 212° / 222°
• Advertised Duration: 279° Intake; 289° Exhaust
• Cam Lift: .295 Intake; .310 Exhaust
• Valve Lift: .493 Intake; .510 Exhaust
• Lobe Center: 107° Intake; 117° Exhaust

Camshaft Range Guide and Recommended
Equipment:

• Fair idle with lope
• Operating range of 2000-4800 rpm
• Good Midrange torque and response:
2400-3200 rpm range
• Good fuel economy with recommended equipment
• Good highway towing with correct axle ratio
• Mild bracket racing suitability
• Stock automatic or manual transmission compatibility
• Recommended 3.70:1 axle ratio
• Stock or aftermarket 2 plane or torque type intake
manifold recommended
• Stock 2 or 4 barrel or low cfm aftermarket carburetor
recommended; rejetting may be necessary

Available Engine Options :

• Magnum roller tipped rockers
• Aluminum roller rockers
• World products Windsor Jr. heads

The “302” JASPER PERFORMANCE Engine was tested with
headers, Edelbrock Performer manifold and 600 Edelbrock
carburetor. Readings taken at SAE standards.

The manifold and carburetor are not included with the
engine, but are available for an additional charge. Headers are not available.
I do not see built with the crappiest parts, abysmal camshafts, and lots of "shortcuts."

Now I know that I am getting older and just a little less wiser, but this seems to me to be one heck of an offering.

But it was just a suggestion.
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Old 06-14-2005, 07:21 AM
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But, would I be able to get that engine you posted about above for less than $1500? I couldn't find prices on their engines anywhere on the site... not without entering a vehicle. I even entered a vehicle that would have a 302 and the class 2 (which the 300hp 302 is listed under) costs about $2500. Unless you want to give me the extra $1000 then that is not an option.
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Old 06-14-2005, 08:06 PM
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No experience

I have no experience with Jasper so I can't vouch for their quality. Some run of the mill rebuilders do have the faults I noted, however.

Personally, I would rather learn all I can about the engine I would to build, learn some more, and learn some more then build it myself. You can almost always do it cheaper yourself.

With that said, there is much to be learned. It is often very difficult to look at an engine for the untrained individual and tell what would be causing problems. There are lots of things to look for like copper showing, grooves, or scuffs on the bearings. Valves may appear to be fine but have burnt sealing surfaces, valves seats could be eroded, and guides could leak oil like a sieve. To really tell the "health" of an engine requires the use of precision measuring equipment.

Take Kultulz's advice and pony up the cash and by a Jasper engine, particularly if they have a warranty. Otherwise, take your $1500 and start learning everything you can about engines and build your own. But trust me, it would 10 times easier to just pay up the cash instead of learn. You can't argue with the rewarding feel of getting an engine you built to run awesome and make great power.

Hotrodding ain't cheap and you better get used to being broke and making tradeoffs with your upgrades. It is something everybody goes through!

Cheers,
Andy
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