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Old 11-13-2013, 10:17 AM
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Building a 383 stroker

I'm planing on building a 383 stroker I'm just wondering
What do I need to change should I go with vortec heads
Should I use original lifters rockers and push rods
and wen ordering parts do I order them
For a 383 or for a 350 the engine is a 350 out of my 71 blazer
Any info will help I never built a engine it's going to be a street
/ mud truck

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Old 11-13-2013, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Towerclimber View Post
I'm planing on building a 383 stroker I'm just wondering
What do I need to change should I go with vortec heads
Should I use original lifters rockers and push rods
and wen ordering parts do I order them
For a 383 or for a 350 the engine is a 350 out of my 71 blazer
Any info will help I never built a engine it's going to be a street
/ mud truck
You need to decide on whose 3.75 inch crank you want such as SCAT, Eagle, others; then whether cast or forged, internal or external balance (I'd go internal); and of course a 71 will use the 2 piece rear seal.

Rods, they also affect piston selection in terms of pin location to crown. The easy choice will be 5.7 or 6 inch (longer is better with these stretched stokes but gets into the ring lands so rings have to be specific to the piston as some will require a support over the pin bore for the oil ring. Again SCAT and Eagle come to mind as sources. You will need clearance of the rods for the cam and the pan rail, in that regard cap screw rods are a better choice than bolt and nut for retaining the cap.

Will fininsh pistons later gotta run

Bogie
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Towerclimber View Post
I'm planing on building a 383 stroker I'm just wondering
What do I need to change should I go with vortec heads
Should I use original lifters rockers and push rods
and wen ordering parts do I order them
For a 383 or for a 350 the engine is a 350 out of my 71 blazer
Any info will help I never built a engine it's going to be a street
/ mud truck
I would strongly recommend that you begin with a later long block, like the L31 350 from a '96-'02 Chevrolet or GMC truck, van or SUV. They are roller cam blocks and will save you tons of frustration trying to keep a flat tappet cam from roaching itself.

Mud truck says "huge tires" to me. You will need a rear gear ratio in the high 4's or low 5's to allow some meaningful revs from the motor.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:58 PM
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If your going to spin it up,the Vortec heads are going to be the limiting factor.For a 383 in higher rpm ranges,a 195cc intake runner size if the minimum.And 383's love exhaust,so a good exhaust system/cam choice leaning on cam's exhaust side is recommended.

Do consider a aluminum aftermarket head will allow a higher SCR head room.That would help.The other part is a strong effort to hit a target quench of .035 to .040.The type of piston for that is a "D" dish piston.You can read up on the quench on Wiki at the top of this forum.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:38 PM
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You will definitely be ahead of the game by finding a #880 block to start your build with.Besides already being roller ready,it will also need less machine work for clearance due to the shorter cylinders.Either find a good block,or,even a complete used motor.The mud pit won't be the only pit you'll be dealing with either.You will also be involved with the money pit.LOL.Once you start applying your Newfound HP & torque,you have to start beefing the rest of the truck up to handle the power & tires,etc.@ least your,IIRC,still has a real differential in the front instead like these newer models w/ front axles not much bigger than your pinky.
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Old 11-13-2013, 04:30 PM
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The 350 block that was in the truck is numbers 14010207 Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	1.79 MB
ID:	98386 should I get a different block I really don't no anything about building engines
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Old 11-13-2013, 04:58 PM
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Yes,as Tech & myself both said,using a later model #880 block,used for the 96/2001 L31 Vortec 350 would be a lot better block to build from.It is already setup to use a roller cam & lifters.You can probably pick up a decent used complete engine for what a retro roller cam set up will cost you.with todays engine oils,a high performance flat tappet cam won't make it very long w/o special additives & break in procedures.I would try to find a used complete engine vs finding just a bare block.It will have other useful parts you will need as well.The Vortec heads are decent production iron heads.They are capable of supporting 375 to 400 HP.They will need some work if using a cam w/ more .470" lift & to be honest the intake ports are a little small for a 383.Your best bet would be a set of aftermarket aluminum heads depending on your HP goals & usage.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:22 PM
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The 383 mite not be the best engine to build for a 1st timer.I strongly suggest you do some reading up on engines,engine building,& look into exactly what all is involved with building a 383 from a 350.Especially if you don't someone to help you along the way.For a 1st engine,you may wanna consider buying a built short block & building it up from there.That would be a good learning experience.What kind of power are looking for?Figure out exactly what you want & expect from the engine & truck overall for whatever budget you have to work with.Having a solid plan & goal befor you start buying parts is the best thing you can do.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Towerclimber View Post
The 350 block that was in the truck is numbers 14010207 Attachment 98386 should I get a different block I really don't no anything about building engines
A decent enough block for building on it comes in 2 or 4 bolt versions, certainly the 4 bolt would be better for what you want to do. You'll have to pull the pan to see which main caps it has because there will not be any outside identification other than to say if this is a 3/4 ton or larger truck it will be 4 bolt. If it's a half ton it could be either but most likely will be a 2 bolt.

Before I get into pistons where I had to break off this morning let’s talk about roller cams since the subject has come up. The issue with flat tappet cams is the removal of Extreme Pressure components from oil along with the addition of high levels of detergents. This is a double whammy for flat tappet cam and lifter life especially where fast lift cams with high spring pressures are involved. Inexpensive cams just will not hold up any more under the lack EP compounds like ZDDP and the increased detergency which wipes the ZDDP of the needing surfaces. The OEMs began the switch to roller cams in the mid 1980's and completed it with 1996 model year which also coincides with complete implementation of OBD II vehicle management systems. I have advocated for cam thrust bumper installation on the Chevy with flat tappet cams for what is now decades as a help in reducing thrust wandering of the cam which adds a scrubbing motion between the lobe and lifter and tugs the distributor shaft enough to wiggle the timing several degrees. I figure that the lobes and lifters have enough to do without being responsible to maintain a thrust loading on the cam gear against the block. Many other respected brands have used a thrust plate as comes with the roller cam engines on their flat tappet engines for decades, so I've been less than enthusiastic about GM's claims that you hold thrust with angles on the lobes and convex surfaces on the lifter, as there other brands use the same angles across the lobe and convex surfaces on the lifter because that's the way a flat tappet system has to be designed to get any life expectancy from it so GM ain’t doing anything unique here. There is a current tendency to build some flat tappet cams and lifters from better materials ranging from surface hardening techniques such as nitriding or cold casing to using what is essentially nodular iron and ceramic composite surfaces but this stuff runs the cost up nearly or equal to a roller cam set up. So unless you're looking at racing in a rules limited class that requires a flat tappet cam these high cost flat tappets tend not to be used by the hot rod community which just lives with the failure rate of less expensive cams. So this is why people are recommending the later roller blocks because the roller lasts very well with contemporary EPA designed oils and while pricey compared to standard flat tappet cams are a lot less expensive to build with than aftermarket cams because you can use the factory roller lifters and dog bone alignment guides that are cheaper than the aftermarket rollers and guide mechanisms. Frankly, I think you can use an aftermarket flat tappet with low detergent racing oil and a ZDDP additive package, with a thrust bumper from the roller cam guys, and Beehive springs. The beehives with their complex interaction to spring harmonics because of the difference in wind diameter and spacing top to bottom, having a smaller thus lighter retainer, and the use of ovate rather than round wire makes the spring self damping of its harmonics. The lower pressures without loss of valve control greatly add to cam and lifter life by just reducing the loads between these working parts. To achieve the same control with dual or triple wound standard springs requires a lot more spring pressure and a much larger retainer. Ok that's lot but that's the whys and why-not’s of a flat tappet or factory roller tappet block.

The production Vortec head is a bit small on a 383 engine, and for competition is structurally inadequate. These are thin wall castings that will not absorb a lot of abuse. You can use them on a competition engine, but you've got to have a super good cooling system to keep them at reasonable operating temps so they don't crack. Even then it's risky around the center adjacent exhaust valves as this area runs much hotter than anywhere else so cracks form easily in this area or just outside this area because the head is trying to pucker up so it bends here. This also results in blown head gaskets between these center cylinders. Opening up the gasket holes between these cylinders and the use of 4 corner coolant returns is pretty helpful for these heads, any heads but especially these by putting more coolant flow onto this hot area.

Pistons, when I got interrupted this morning, are the choice between castings or forgings. Here if you're going for a rod length that puts the pin in the oil ring, you especially want a high silicon piston for strength, stiffness, and thermal stability. If a cast piston you want a hyper-eutectic, these are quite good but don't tolerate detonation long, not that anything does. For a forging I recommend a high silicon material like 4032, while 2618 is slightly ultimately stronger, the 4032 ain't that far behind while it's greater dimensional stability in harsh thermal situations make it less likely you'll have to test its ultimate strength. With high silicon pistons there is less expansion/contraction with temperature changes; this allows a tighter skirt clearance which keeps the ring package more square with the cylinder wall which in turn reduces both blow by and oil consumption. Those keep the cylinder pressure pushing on the piston while keeping detonation causing oil out of the combustion chamber. This reduces the work the rings have to do which lets you use a lower tension ring which decreases friction with the cylinder wall which then makes more power available to the crankshaft. Just follow the dots! For detonation control you want to stay away from pistons with circular dishes. These have too much distance between the piston and the squish/quench step of the head which reduces its function of holding detonation at bay. A flat top is best for this while not getting in the way of the burn like a domed piston. A suitable alternative is the D dish which puts any extra volume needed to manage compression under the valve pocket while retaining all the benefits of a flat top. I do not recommend the step dish which looks a lot like a D dish but has no raised edge on the spark-plug side of the piston. Do not buy inexpensive forgings, there are old fashion left-overs still being manufactured, while good 40-50 years ago for racring because that was the State Of The Art then, today there only good for street machines.

I will add before my fingers die that using a roller block with the one piece rear seal which are very nice indeed, the crank bolt circle is different (smaller) so a flywheel or flexplate purchase has to be included as what you've got won't fit those cranks. This also is place where keeping the engine internally balanced means that flywheels, flexplates and dampers can be swapped around without having to rebalance the crankshaft assembly.

Bogie

Last edited by oldbogie; 11-13-2013 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:38 PM
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what amount of power do you need? maybe the 350 is enough? maybe the 383 is too small? Do you have access to help and is the machine shop you are using familiar with high performance machine work?
start with the heads after you figure the amount of power you want,then build the engine to co ordinate with your plan
like Gary said,vortec heads and 383 cubes is not really a good combination,unless you are looking for moderate power at a lower rpm range
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie View Post
A decent enough block for building on it comes in 2 or 4 bolt versions, certainly the 4 bolt would be better for what you want to do. You'll have to pull the pan to see which main caps it has because there will not be any outside identification other than to say if this is a 3/4 ton or larger truck it will be 4 bolt. If it's a half ton it could be either but most likely will be a 2 bolt.

Before I get into pistons where I had to break off this morning letís talk about roller cams since the subject has come up. The issue with flat tappet cams is the removal of Extreme Pressure components from oil along with the addition of high levels of detergents. This is a double whammy for flat tappet cam and lifter life especially where fast lift cams with high spring pressures are involved. Inexpensive cams just will not hold up any more under the lack EP compounds like ZDDP and the increased detergency which wipes the ZDDP of the needing surfaces. The OEMs began the switch to roller cams in the mid 1980's and completed it with 1996 model year which also coincides with complete implementation of OBD II vehicle management systems. I have advocated for cam thrust bumper installation on the Chevy with flat tappet cams for what is now decades as a help in reducing thrust wandering of the cam which adds a scrubbing motion between the lobe and lifter and tugs the distributor shaft enough to wiggle the timing several degrees. I figure that the lobes and lifters have enough to do without being responsible to maintain a thrust loading on the cam gear against the block. Many other respected brands have used a thrust plate as comes with the roller cam engines on their flat tappet engines for decades, so I've been less than enthusiastic about GM's claims that you hold thrust with angles on the lobes and convex surfaces on the lifter, as there other brands use the same angles across the lobe and convex surfaces on the lifter because that's the way a flat tappet system has to be designed to get any life expectancy from it so GM ainít doing anything unique here. There is a current tendency to build some flat tappet cams and lifters from better materials ranging from surface hardening techniques such as nitriding or cold casing to using what is essentially nodular iron and ceramic composite surfaces but this stuff runs the cost up nearly or equal to a roller cam set up. So unless you're looking at racing in a rules limited class that requires a flat tappet cam these high cost flat tappets tend not to be used by the hot rod community which just lives with the failure rate of less expensive cams. So this is why people are recommending the later roller blocks because the roller lasts very well with contemporary EPA designed oils and while pricey compared to standard flat tappet cams are a lot less expensive to build with than aftermarket cams because you can use the factory roller lifters and dog bone alignment guides that are cheaper than the aftermarket rollers and guide mechanisms. Frankly, I think you can use an aftermarket flat tappet with low detergent racing oil and a ZDDP additive package, with a thrust bumper from the roller cam guys, and Beehive springs. The beehives with their complex interaction to spring harmonics because of the difference in wind diameter and spacing top to bottom, having a smaller thus lighter retainer, and the use of ovate rather than round wire makes the spring self damping of its harmonics. The lower pressures without loss of valve control greatly add to cam and lifter life by just reducing the loads between these working parts. To achieve the same control with dual or triple wound standard springs requires a lot more spring pressure and a much larger retainer. Ok that's lot but that's the whys and why-notís of a flat tappet or factory roller tappet block.

The production Vortec head is a bit small on a 383 engine, and for competition is structurally inadequate. These are thin wall castings that will not absorb a lot of abuse. You can use them on a competition engine, but you've got to have a super good cooling system to keep them at reasonable operating temps so they don't crack. Even then it's risky around the center adjacent exhaust valves as this area runs much hotter than anywhere else so cracks form easily in this area or just outside this area because the head is trying to pucker up so it bends here. This also results in blown head gaskets between these center cylinders. Opening up the gasket holes between these cylinders and the use of 4 corner coolant returns is pretty helpful for these heads, any heads but especially these by putting more coolant flow onto this hot area.

Pistons, when I got interrupted this morning, are the choice between castings or forgings. Here if you're going for a rod length that puts the pin in the oil ring, you especially want a high silicon piston for strength, stiffness, and thermal stability. If a cast piston you want a hyper-eutectic, these are quite good but don't tolerate detonation long, not that anything does. For a forging I recommend a high silicon material like 4032, while 2618 is slightly ultimately stronger, the 4032 ain't that far behind while it's greater dimensional stability in harsh thermal situations make it less likely you'll have to test its ultimate strength. With high silicon pistons there is less expansion/contraction with temperature changes; this allows a tighter skirt clearance which keeps the ring package more square with the cylinder wall which in turn reduces both blow by and oil consumption. Those keep the cylinder pressure pushing on the piston while keeping detonation causing oil out of the combustion chamber. This reduces the work the rings have to do which lets you use a lower tension ring which decreases friction with the cylinder wall which then makes more power available to the crankshaft. Just follow the dots! For detonation control you want to stay away from pistons with circular dishes. These have too much distance between the piston and the squish/quench step of the head which reduces its function of holding detonation at bay. A flat top is best for this while not getting in the way of the burn like a domed piston. A suitable alternative is the D dish which puts any extra volume needed to manage compression under the valve pocket while retaining all the benefits of a flat top. I do not recommend the step dish which looks a lot like a D dish but has no raised edge on the spark-plug side of the piston. Do not buy inexpensive forgings, there are old fashion left-overs still being manufactured, while good 40-50 years ago for racring because that was the State Of The Art then, today there only good for street machines.

I will add before my fingers die that using a roller block with the one piece rear seal which are very nice indeed, the crank bolt circle is different (smaller) so a flywheel or flexplate purchase has to be included as what you've got won't fit those cranks. This also is place where keeping the engine internally balanced means that flywheels, flexplates and dampers can be swapped around without having to rebalance the crankshaft assembly.

Bogie
What I question here is low tension rings without either file fit rings or gas port pistons.The gas port pistons are $$$$.

Also internal balance cranks that are not apart of a packaged rotating assemble,you need to be very aware of the rod/piston wt or else you more than likely are going to find the crank it too light requiring Mallory to re- balance it.The lower dollar internal balance rotating assembles leaves a ton to be questioned and all should be verified.The normal charges to set up the machine for that and spin it is $200.That is just to find out where the balance is.I'm all about a internal balance rotating assemblies being a better way to go.My point here there are plenty of times guys think they are getting "a deal" on a low dollar purchase,only to find to make it useable cost more than if they had bought a good one in the first place.
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Old 11-14-2013, 07:39 AM
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Side bar-Tech and others would tell you a low dollar low rpm torque monster would be for you to find a tall deck BBC 427 and stroke that.They are getting harder to find,but they are still out there.
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