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Old 09-14-2005, 10:01 AM
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building a 454 for mud bogging

Hello,

I am in need of some help. I am building a 454 for a jeep that I use for mud boggs. From what I can tell by the numbers on the block it is a 73-90 block. I am not for sure how to tell exactly what year it is. I looked the numbers up on www.MORTEC.com. I am wanting to build a 496. I am wanting to get as much horsepower and torque I can get. I have some what of a limited budget to do this. I need help in all aspects of this. I have never messed with big blocks always smallblocks. I would like to have some suggetions for the crank, rods, pistons, cam, (should I go roller, solid, hydraulic). What type of heads, intake carb. Would I be better off to run one carb or a tunnel ram.type of intake. I would like to turn around 6000-6500 rpms and have as much torque as I can. Any suggetions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Chris

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Old 09-14-2005, 10:10 AM
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Build it for mid range torque. Mudd boggers don't use the upper limits to often enough to sacrafice what's needed. Turn it 5500 and make the same power. Save a bunch of money.
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Old 09-14-2005, 10:12 AM
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454

do you have any suggetions on how to build it to make a bunch of power

Chris
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Old 09-14-2005, 10:17 AM
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I would say stick with the SBC you will save weight and still can have the power you need. What class will you run in? is it for fun, or is it a pay to run events you are going to? In mud bogging its all about weight. What size tire and type are you running? What type Jeep are you using?

Steve
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Old 09-14-2005, 10:22 AM
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454

Hello, the tires are 35 boggers. I run pay events. I have a c j 5 I have a 383 stoker for it that I am running now But I have to run against a couple of jeeps that have big blocks in them and I can't keep up. Thats why I am thinking about running a big block.

Chris
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Old 09-14-2005, 10:45 AM
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You say you cant keep up with the big blocks? Do you have more tire spin than they do? Maybe due to the weight difference. I believe that a mud bogger can run and win with a small block. 35's are not that big, and wouldn't require a BB to turn. Do you run using time slips or is it who crosses the finish line first? How much faster are the BB jeeps than you?

Steve
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Old 09-14-2005, 11:23 AM
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Welll....it depends how much you've got to spend.

$600 Eagle crank
$600 13:1 pistons
$350 rods

Brodix BB-2 plus heads

112* lobe sep 700" lift roller

730 Hp no Nitrous

9.36 @ 143 in an all steel '66 el Camino with Nitrous.


Maybe a little over kill.


You could just build a 454 with a solid botton end {small domes}, a 550" solid cam ported oval port heads and shoot the juice to it. expect {or hope for} around 650 hp with a 125 shot.
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Old 09-14-2005, 11:41 AM
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Well for a change in this situation I also may go with the SBC...? Your saying a Jeep...? What is the weight...?

Also what are your spec`s on the 383 you have now...?

One thing to consider BBC`s are great on torque and horsepower which work great in a heavy app (but they are not exactly cheap even with factory parts)... A well built SBC with parts that are availible now in a light app can really shine on the other hand...
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Old 09-14-2005, 12:47 PM
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I too am building a 454 for mud bogging in a full size 1ton truck. It all depends on the hole. If it has light mud with a decent bottom, weight is key to get to the bottom for traction . If it is a heavy sticky mud with seemingly no bottom then of course you want to stay on top as much as you can. It's not like a dragstrip where the surface is always consistent. I was at a local bog here in VA not long ago. The hole was real thick and sticky. Those X class guys with 800+ h.p. were staging up,coming off the transbrake making about 40' and taching out. Almost the best run I saw all day was in a stock longbed with 40s.
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Old 09-14-2005, 01:00 PM
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454

on the mud boggs we run a total distance between two runs. Whoever has the most distance with the two runs combined wins. If two people get through the pit the second run is timed.

The specs on the 383 are 5.7 rods, steel crank, 10-1 compression speed pro pistons. Dart Iron Eagle heads 202 160, 180 runners. The cam is by www.Lazercams@aol.com. The specs on it are CS-H290A/295B-04, 240 and 245 @.050 lift is 519 and 502 lobe seperation is 104 with 100 intake centerline. the intake is a Victor Jr the carb is a holley dual feed 780. The jeeps are beating me by about a couple os sec. I am not for sure how much the jeep weighs I have a Blazer frame that has been cut to a 7 ft wheel base to accomadate the jeep body.

Thanks,

Chris
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Old 09-14-2005, 01:19 PM
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In my experiance, the guy with the most power is seldomly the leader.

I think you mild 383 is getting beat by a well built 454. Your heads are too small for the cam, carb and intake. You never said what gear you run. Get a new set of dart 215's and angle mill them .385 to 35cc. run 112 VP race gas and you'll be making 500hp at 7000. Use a gear that get's your rpm to 7000. Like a 6:20 or 6:50. Them groove and sipe the tires to expell mudd and keep the wheel speed up.
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Old 09-14-2005, 01:35 PM
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It does not matter what the mud type, the less weight you drag across it the faster, and farther you can go. I have bogged for many years when I was younger and have seen many big bad high horsepower engines get stomped on by a Toyota 4 cyl. All you need (in your case when measuring the distance of 2 runs) is light weight, tire speed (to keep the treads clean) and proper gearing. If you are running for time well that is where the extra horsepower comes in at. I ran a 1977 Jeep CJ7 with 35's, 40's, and 42's for many years and would walk most if not all of the mod full size trucks. Your problem is that you have a Blazer frame under you Jeep. The narrow track and short wheel base of the Jeep's helps in the hole. With the narrow track you can hook on the inside ruts of the other trucks. Big is not always better.

Steve
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Old 09-14-2005, 07:47 PM
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35's does not at all require a big block. The idea in the class you run is to lose as much weight as possible. The fastest vehicle I have ever seen that would run in your class is a Suzuki running a 377 on 35" boggers. He easily dominates the field where he has ran.
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Old 09-14-2005, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1931 steve
Your problem is that you have a Blazer frame under you Jeep. The narrow track and short wheel base of the Jeep's helps in the hole. With the narrow track you can hook on the inside ruts of the other trucks. Big is not always better.

Steve
I would have to tally agree with steve here. A well built 350's in a jeep (and jeep frame) would normally beat most Big Blocks around. And Weight is the issue also I am pretty sure. over here, I've seen suzuki samurai's run circles around big blocks in Mud Bogs. All they had was 35", 4.3 6 cyl and gears and they'd float right pass the big boys, surfing over the bog. And as Steve said, I totally agree that the Blazer frame is not a good idea since you loose the narrow track and the "jeep" advantage, you would have been a lot better keeping the original frame or make a light weight tube frame for that matter. keep the 383, work the other problems you have around your rig like weight and frame etc. it'll be cheaper changing frame than buying and building a big block which actually won't correct the frame problem. Your friends have got 454's, yeah sure./..but they have a jeep frame also...

Also, keep in mind that putting a 454 in front of a jeep is going to unbalance the vehicule torwards the front, you actually want to have a slightly backwards center of gravity (or as neutral as possible otherwise) in order to climb on the mud and clear off the bottom frame from draggin mud as much as possible. if you just put a 454 in front, you'll have to rebalance your rig otherwise you could worsen the situation since your front will be the plow that wants to go down.......think Surf when you think mud, but the vehicule is your board and the medium is slightly more dense that water...
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Last edited by Parisienne66; 09-14-2005 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 09-14-2005, 09:29 PM
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I'm not much into the mud but it seems like some undercarrage work could go a long ways in freeing up Hp and gaining distance if you haven't already done so. It will also keep you a-float if the mud's real deep.

In the pic of the 377 Suzuki I don't see much undercarrage work but imagine if it had a skid plate just on the front nerf bar dropping at a downwards angle back and towards the front differential.
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