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Building a model A with corvette Drivetrain

37K views 171 replies 29 participants last post by  baba67 
#1 ·
Just got my *** kicked on the HAMB for posting this by all the traditionalists. That was not my goal... just want some thoughts and even open some eyes to something new and cool.


"Let me start by stating that I am looking for feedback from guys that enjoy going "Outside the box". I would prefer positive feedback but am willing to listen to opinions from all. NOTE: this is MY car and i am going with Corvette suspension.
I am a lover of traditional rods and have built a shoebox ford to the "acceptable standards", however I'm bored with it and ready to do something different. I have a 28 A Tudor that is in great shape and is dying to be chopped and channeled. I can't bring myself to go straight axle with the technology that is out there in the way or IRS/IFS. I have both C4 ('85) and C5 ('99) units with under 60K on both units. I am beginning my chassis designs for both setups but want some feedback from the group on thoughts. Biggest negative with the c5 is the rear transmission, however it will afford me more legroom in a very small car. I'm 5'11" so I opted for a sedan to begin with. I want to drive the **** out of it in "reasonable" weather. The goal is to have performance, comfort, style and function... I don't believe anyone can argue against that goal. If you can share something useful in the thread, please do... Smitty "



Really just want some input and general thoughts. I'm definitely leaning towards the C5 LS1 Technology
 

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#139 ·
Swap Meet Purchases

So i spent Friday and Saturday in Canfield Ohio where i came across some good deals... tons of small stuff and a few biggies... how about a pneumatic strut compressor for $50 bucks??? - Really? Got a firewall mount brake booster assembly and some bear claw latches for a total of $90 and an evaporator for a 57 chevy car (vintage air) for $25! The evaporator unit is series I so if i wanted to go that route it would force me to use cable drive... not first choice, but a $25 evaporator unit... The bear claws concern me... i see no way of incorporating them without extending the door panel into the car.
 

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#141 ·
Thank you CAD and Plasma Table!!!

The model A has received new Steel! New floors, Cowl and side cowls! With the help of my friend Jim, We measured out (3-4 times) each measurement of the floors and cowl extension. Wow is it nice to pick up your already-cut-to-size parts! I drew all the drawings so the steel place didn't even charge me to cut them! See the pics below!
 

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#142 ·
Metalwork with no knowledge!

More pics of the cowl.
The bottom cowl pieces are just pinched in place at the moment but you get the point.
I have no metal working skills, but do have a sheet metal roller at work. so with the roller i was able to curve it one way for the upper cowl and the lowers then cut multiple cuts to make a curve. I used a grinder with a cutoff wheel and a pair of lineman pliers. My welder is right on the money for this 18g metal... i am not adjusting it until i get everything in place!
 

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#143 ·
Sheet metal welding

The cowl is coming along nicely. Had to tack some pieces underneath the extension so that it sits where i want it to, but other than that, cleco away and tack in place... I guess i'm doing ok??? The cowl will be removable for now because i have a brake booster to contend with, wiring, A/C evaporator, etc... But will have to come together pretty soon. I need to set my pedals and seat supports before the floors get welded in... the problem is the need for support still in the front end. I have the firewall pretty much cut away which at the moment allows for movement... don't want to weld it up crooked! I'm going to get the booster and accelerator figured out and then Tack her up... gonna be tough to squeeze in there but it has to happen at some point...
 

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#149 ·
Gotta tell ya... i don't disagree... the chassis could have then been wider, the seats wider, more room... etc! hindsight is 20/20. I was worried about having to buy a new windshield, back window pieces, etc... in hindsight, i could have used leftovers from the chop! I would have had to have tubbed it though. kinda like the tires outside the body.
 
#145 ·
I don't know how you could think you are doing a good job on this project.
Now, I have seen it all with a cowl extension wtf.
I did not realise how much effort it has taken you to f*@k up what was a good body.
It's your project, so do what you want, but boy oh boy I can't call it a hot rod.
 
#146 ·
Thanks for the kind words!



Well i got my first hater! I guess in 100+ posts it was bound to happen.
I'm not going to get upset as i can't and don't expect to please everyone, however i will explain my reasoning for doing what i am doing...
Because i chose to go with the C5 Drivetrain the transmission is in the rear... the torque converter housing is going to physically be inside the car and is at this time already making contact with the seats in the furthest back position. Based on my height and sitting in the driving position i have no choice but extend the cowl as i simply will not fit without my knees bumping off the dash. Unlike some people, I intend to drive this thing almost daily. 2nd reason for extension is that the torque tube is exposed with a big space between the original cowl and the block.
I would prefer you keep your negative (not helpful) comments to yourself, but i cannot make you. I ask that you keep this thread clean please.
I intend to leave this car to my (now 4 year old) daughter so that she can see what went into the build as well as know what parts are needed in the event she needs to replace them.
 
#147 ·
The Cowl Continued

Here are a few more pics so that you can see the mounting tabs that i added to support the cowl for future welding. In the one photo you can see the clecos that are holding the floor section down from above. currently the original firewall is still in place, however i am going to have to remove it soon. The master cylinder is going to need alot of mock-up in order to get it right and comfortable.
 

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#148 ·
seat support and cowl sides

The first pic are of additional floor structure that is necessary for the seat to bolt down to. I ran into a snag when i went to put them in for stud mounting though... the darn things don't mount parallel to the torque tube or with the length of the car! If you intend to use airplane seats, realize this fact! I will adapt the mounting points this evening as well as add to the structure along the door sills.
The other pics are of the cowl sides. As i said earlier i just rolled, cut, welded, and need yet to grind... long night... getting somewhere i guess.
 

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#150 ·
Houston... we have a floor!

So this past Saturday I worked a straight 14 hours on the car with no pepsi-lites or even lunch. I made minor changes to the floors, drilled and punched holes for puddle welds, laid out the seat supports underneath the sheet metal, and made kick panels out of 11 gauge. worked myself sick somehow and made no progress in the past 2 days. Took lots of progress picks here for you to see. more to follow in the next couple posts of Saturday's progress.
 

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#151 ·
Floor, cowl and metal tabs

So another shot of the floors and the cowl. 1 pic of the tabs i had made with whatever space was left of the 4x10 sheet on the plasma table. The next post will show mock-up of the master cylinder.
 

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#152 ·
Enter the braking system...

So at the swap meet i picked up a firewall mounted brake booster assembly. Mind you this was not my initial plan but a floor mounted system was is not an option with the X-member installed. The X-member is absolutely necessary in this application because the chassis is so narrow in order to clear the narrow '28 cowl width (29" if memory serves). That being said I absolutely HATE seeing an ugly master cylinder and booster on a hot rod (particularly when not running a hood)! I am reverse engineering the system which requires me to swing the pedal in the opposite direction, bend it to fit around the kick panel and still fit the column in... oh yea and A/C????? wtf???? Hope its doable. Anyways, enjoy the mock-up pics of the booster. Having the firewall removable at this point is a lifesaver!
Note* it will probably be moving down and to the left as far as possible to save space. As for filling the master... my father has already purchased my birthday present of a remote reservoir from Johnny Law Motors which I receive in july.
 

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#153 ·
Rear Floors and Trap Doors

So I've had some garage work that has hindered my progress, but did a bit each night i could last week and hammered hard on Friday and Saturday. Got my floors all but welded in place. As i have no extra pieces, I have been especially careful not to waste any material. I will probably have to break down and buy some more as i would like finished inner fender wells and no place for dirt/debris to gather. but for the moment I am concentrating on having access to body mounting bolts and little to no gaps between areas where metal meets seam sealer.
The pics show the back section over the transmission as well as the "trap doors" with their 18g skins. The idea here was to overlap so that noise, moisture, etc will be decreased. I intend to flange the door skins to accept a very thin weatherstrip seal.
 

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#154 ·
Rear Floors and Trap Doors... Continued

I included the gas tank without the floors to show how the sheetmetal will fill underneath as well. I need to produce mounting flanges for the tank under the floor as well as on the tank to secure. Using the pictured 3/4" square stock and the rear 1x2 tubing I will make 3 mounting points to secure the tank to its new home. The floor will then need to be drilled to match those holes and finally welded to the structure.
Other included photos show once again the battery access door and the compressor/air tank access door.
The battery is currently in place and the plastic container atop is the hold down bracket needed for security. The Compressor and tank are currently removed for plumbing purposes.
 

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#155 ·
Back again! Fuel delivery is underway!

So you would think that being a shop teacher that I would get most of my work done during the summer. Not the case. Instead I am Mr. Mom and trying to keep up with grass, pool, LILY's Go-Kart Racing, etc. But best of all I tore my meniscus a week ago and am awaiting minor surgery. The wife is pissed I cant put the front deck on.
I did however manage to finish my gas tank system. I am short some fuel injection hose and some other minor things, but after a thorough cleaning will be ready for paint and eventually vinyl!
These first few posts will show you my original plan. Using a piece of angle iron I was going to use the original '97 Camaro fuel pump housing and sending unit. I adapted the sender to have a much longer throw (and thus more accurate fuel reading) by using 1/8" round rod to replace the float lever. I welded this to the angle iron and also built a "slosh pan" for the filter sock. The last thing you want is for your pump to run dry!
 

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#156 ·
Change of plans...

After taking my multi-meter to my stock sender, I realized that I was not getting a 0 and not quite a 90 ohm reading... didn't matter what I did. Wouldn't be a big issue except that if I completely went bad I would have to buy a complete assembly for a '97 f-body and that wouldn't even have the right pump... at $275 per sender I decided to go the conventional route using a standard sending unit like on boats and older cars... found it at autozone for less than e-bay! With the assistance of my cnc laser operator (little brother Garrett) we're bolted in! Yes I bolted it up from the bottom. Reasoning is because I prefer to eliminate any more protrusion from above. (There is enough already)
 

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#157 ·
The finished Product! F___ Tanks inc and stealth!

YOU TOO can build your own fuel delivery system! It really isn't that difficult, but to do it right it takes time. Must say I wouldn't do it any different than this. by unbolting the 1/4" x 20 bolts, you're pulling the entire fuel system out in minutes. In the pics you will see that I still need to add fuel injection hose, 90 degree fittings and wiring to the pump. I will be heading to the auto parts store tomorrow to access these items. In the meantime, enjoy the pics... these parts moved in and out of here at least 20 times.
So you realize what I did, The sender is in previous post.
Welded angle iron from lid to just short of the bottom of the tank.
Drilled 7/8" and tapped 1/4" 13 NPT threads into plate for fittings.
Used "lamp repair parts" 3/8 threaded tube to screw through plate. Applied flat rubber washers, machine washers and lamp repair nuts to secure both above and below the lid.
Used 3/16" bolts and numerous nuts, washers and lockwashers as well as rubber tapered washers to secure, seal and most importantly INSULATE the terminals from the tank's negative (-) ground for direct fuel pump power.
 

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#162 ·
yobsmitty,

I am just curious but what do you estimate curb weight is going to be when your done? just curious that's all
Sorry it took me so long to get back to your question... I really had no idea as to what the weight might be.... With a little studying I've come up with a weight in the neighborhood of 2500#. My weight comes from materials being added together plus estimated amounts of interior pieces, glass and 200# of incidental/unaccountable pieces and parts that show up along the way... At the very end... If it ever ends... I'll post the stats as completed. Hopefully a magazine can do that for me
 
#160 ·
Lake Pipes... after a long summer's nap... not really

So i've been off for the season... cutting grass, building decks, etc. etc. etc... but i have hustled my way into purchasing my A/C parts and been building my Lake Headers! Not enough pics of the lake headers i'm sure, but what is cool is that i built them on the cheap from a local exhaust shop. Matt at Gear drive is a great guy, but i just couldn't afford the custom job... $1000 is a bit much for something i can do. I have to say though, before you take this on, (mind you i'm not a great welder) i have over 20 hrs into these...

check out pic 4... not exactly what i was reading on the protractor... no problem though... thats what cut off wheels and carbides are for!
 

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#164 ·
How Much??? ALL of it!



If i am understanding you correctly you are asking how much of the c5 driveline and suspension will be kept?
If so, ALL of it. Aside from using a Z06 Differential to make the gears steeper to make up for the massive diameter change in rear tires, all 1997 c5 auto vette parts are connected to their lower cradles... if you review the chassis build, all that it does is connects the front to the back, adds mounting points for the upper control arms, and obviously adds structural integrity to the entire unit...
Other than centering and mounting the uppers, the entire driveline is a complete unit from front to back. The torque tube connects the engine to the transmission.
 
#165 ·
Cooling the beast

Sorry it's been a while since i've been on, but I haven't had much to post as i've taken quite a break on the hot rod. I have fiddled with some things like the radiator, crossmember, rad support and grille shell. My brother Garrett once again came through for me on the shroud. It's 1/8" stainless so other than weighing more than the radiator, it should be oxidation free forever. I mounted my fan internally originally, but then moved it to the back side as i had plenty of room for it to fit. Note the final picture at how the notches in the shell brackets work for a simple loosen and pull-up removal. (Simple solution to driving yourself crazy trying to take it on and off)
 

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#166 ·
The Grille Shell...

So in order to fit 10# of **** into this 1# box i had to make some changes... The grille shell being one of them. The air conditioning condenser doesn't only extend the total radiator depth, but it also needs protection from road debris and bugs. This post should help those of you with this problem. If you are trying to stay stock with your shell, break out your wallet and buy the Walker combo. My car uses a champion radiator and a vintage air condenser... School teacher prices...
 

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#167 ·
Grille Shell Continued...

So the insert required some thought. after doing some research I found that i liked the stainless mesh the best. I believe mine is .040 wire with 3/16 squares. Looked significantly better than the .030 1/4". I went to summit and had them bring them both down... no comparison. If you are looking for a screen, buy the bigger... on another note see the pics... They allow for 1/4x20 bolts as well. Tacked stainless bolts after measuring the screen and went from there. Use a cut-off wheel... it is the only way to keep from deforming or separating the wire. notice also that i added brackets to mount into slotted radiator brackets to the grille shell.
 

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