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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2011, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
The trans and engine needs a computer to run things- that can run into some coin.

The Compushift unit for the 4L60E costs about $1100, TCI has one for about $736 but requires a laptop and other parts that aren't included.

Then you still need an engine management system of some sort, or a swap to carb and a "normal" ignition system. You can sell the LT1 Optispark and EFI if it's OK, but this swap will still run a lot of money for an engine that's not enough better than a run-of-the-mill SBC, let alone a L31 Vortec long block.

A L31 longblock can be found cheap, has good heads, roller cam, etc., and if used w/a carb (a Vortec-specific intake is required) and a somewhat modified TH2004R or TH700R4/4L60 trans, will make for a (relatively speaking) easy 400-450 HP engine/trans combo.

A plain-Jane SBC w/flat tappet can make 350-400 HP fairly easily, for less money, more if Vortec heads and intake are used.

If you're looking for a turn-key engine, GM sells a 290 HP engine for fairly cheap. It comes w/a warranty and can be modified easily to make more power.
It comes with the computer and all the wiring. Did you see the video on it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RGeK...e=channel_page It was rebuilt and he has the reciepts. It was rebuilt in 2006-2007 and has been sitting in his garage with all holes taped up. Says it very complete.

Edit, I see where you mention the control for the tranny. Not sure if he has that.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2011, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Localboy808
I see where you mention the control for the tranny. Not sure if he has that.
It would be contained in the PCM he has, I do believe.
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:40 PM
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That's good to know. You think this is a good deal? Sounds good to me but what do I know? My plan was to add to it over time. I think it has a performance cam from what I've heard. Just don't know much about these motors. Is this thing Fuel injected? Or just one of these newer carbs that sit on a regular intake? Not sure if I'm explaining that correctly.
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Localboy808
That's good to know. You think this is a good deal? Sounds good to me but what do I know? My plan was to add to it over time. I think it has a performance cam from what I've heard. Just don't know much about these motors. Is this thing Fuel injected? Or just one of these newer carbs that sit on a regular intake? Not sure if I'm explaining that correctly.
It'll have a full zoot port injected EFI, as opposed to the carb-looking TBI-type EFI.

This is doable and all, but it might be a bit daunting for a person new to it all.

I'd suggest you do some reading up on what others have gone through when doing a swap such as this. Google is your friend, as they say.

Some sites that should help give you some insight on the LT1:

www.ls1lt1.com
www.lt1engine.com
www.ls1tech.com

Other sites that have forums dedicated to the LT1:

www.camaroz28.com
www.z28.com
http://www.camaroforums.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9
www.fbody.com
www.speeddensity.org
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/engi...81161-lt1.html
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
It'll have a full zoot port injected EFI, as opposed to the carb-looking TBI-type EFI.

This is doable and all, but it might be a bit daunting for a person new to it all.

I'd suggest you do some reading up on what others have gone through when doing a swap such as this. Google is your friend, as they say.

Some sites that should help give you some insight on the LT1:

www.ls1lt1.com
www.lt1engine.com
www.ls1tech.com

Other sites that have forums dedicated to the LT1:

www.camaroz28.com
www.z28.com
http://www.camaroforums.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9
www.fbody.com
www.speeddensity.org
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/engi...81161-lt1.html
I hear you. It does sound intimidating. I appreciate the good advice! The thought of having a newer tech engine and tranny in the Elky sounds pretty cool. I was leaning toward a standard carburated motor. This just sounded like a good deal for the price. I really only wanted to spend a couple grand for the motor and trans right now.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2011, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Localboy808
The thought of having a newer tech engine and tranny in the Elky sounds pretty cool.
I'm with you there! If you notice what's in the car mags, you'll see a movement towards the Gen III, LS-based mills rather than the LT1 or LT4 (Gen II) engines.

The LT engines were used just a couple years, and while they were somewhat impressive when new, nowadays they're viewed by many as a dead end, technologically speaking. The reverse cooling is about all they offer that can't be readily had from a L31 Vortec engine.

I think the biggest bang for the buck would be a Vortec long block w/a hydraulic roller cam in the 0.440" lift/220 duration range. This allows the heads to be used w/o machining for more lift, just a set of springs would be needed, w/the possibility of a few thousandths removed from the bottom of the spring retainer and new valve stem seals. Total cost on the head mods would be modest- less than $75.00 TL, provided the heads were good to begin with.

An intake would be needed, as would a carb and HEI distributor from an '80-back car or '86-back truck (non-feedback-type), and a set of long tube headers. A combo like this would be expected to make well in excess of 350 HP w/a lot of low end torque- just what is needed to get that Elky up and moving, even w/a 273:1 rear gear. And the potential for decent mileage.

This wouldn't exactly be "high tech", but IS a step forward from a flat tappet, 2-piece rear main seal Gen I SBC. And will fit your budget much better than either the LT1 or LS-type engines.

For a tranny, you could keep the HW gears and use a TH350, swap the rear gears to a peppier 3.42:1 ratio and still use the TH350, or if you wanted to go w/an OD automatic trans, either the TH700R4/TH4L60 or the better gear ratios of the TH2004R could be used w/a different rear gear ratio like a 3.73:1.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2011, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
I'm with you there! If you notice what's in the car mags, you'll see a movement towards the Gen III, LS-based mills rather than the LT1 or LT4 (Gen II) engines.

The LT engines were used just a couple years, and while they were somewhat impressive when new, nowadays they're viewed by many as a dead end, technologically speaking. The reverse cooling is about all they offer that can't be readily had from a L31 Vortec engine.

I think the biggest bang for the buck would be a Vortec long block w/a hydraulic roller cam in the 0.440" lift/220 duration range. This allows the heads to be used w/o machining for more lift, just a set of springs would be needed, w/the possibility of a few thousandths removed from the bottom of the spring retainer and new valve stem seals. Total cost on the head mods would be modest- less than $75.00 TL, provided the heads were good to begin with.

An intake would be needed, as would a carb and HEI distributor from an '80-back car or '86-back truck (non-feedback-type), and a set of long tube headers. A combo like this would be expected to make well in excess of 350 HP w/a lot of low end torque- just what is needed to get that Elky up and moving, even w/a 273:1 rear gear. And the potential for decent mileage.

This wouldn't exactly be "high tech", but IS a step forward from a flat tappet, 2-piece rear main seal Gen I SBC. And will fit your budget much better than either the LT1 or LS-type engines.

For a tranny, you could keep the HW gears and use a TH350, swap the rear gears to a peppier 3.42:1 ratio and still use the TH350, or if you wanted to go w/an OD automatic trans, either the TH700R4/TH4L60 or the better gear ratios of the TH2004R could be used w/a different rear gear ratio like a 3.73:1.
That's some great info. Thanks! I did some research on the Vortec and read an article at popular hotrodding. They did a build very similar to what you are suggesting with great results! Started looking around and see a wrecked 98 Silverado truck with the engine you described. Asking $2000.00 for the whole truck. Imagine I could get the engine/tranny for a bit less. So this engine comes stock with the heads you are discribing minus the valve spring work?
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant...131099426.html Is that the way you would go to find something? What should I pay for something like this?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2011, 07:23 PM
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That truck has the Vortec- it doesn't say 5.7L, there were 5.0L (305) L30 Vortec engines, you do not want one of them. I believe $2K for the truck would be OK for someone, but not someone looking for just an engine and trans, IMHO.

I bought a complete L31 5.7L Vortec engine (from a '99 'Burb) w/a bad crank and one bad rod for $200 off craigslist.

I would learn to ID what years the Vortec was used and in what vehicles and look for an engine (like mine) that wasn't even advertised as a Vortec- just a '99 Suburban engine that knocked when removed.

Obviously a running engine that you can hear and/or drive will be worth more.

A LOT of info on Vortec heads and mods to them, etc. is HERE.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2011, 08:13 PM
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Here's an update, I am going to rebuild a 350 4bolt main block 14010209. Got it cheap. I also scored a pair of Vortec heads at the junkyard that look to be in great shape! They are the good 906/062 heads from a 98 Tahoe. Paid 100 bucks each. With a guarantee against cracks. Hope that was a decent deal? They look to have low mileage on them. Very clean. came complete with rockers,springs and valve covers.

Anyway, here's my questions. Will stock push rods work with these heads? Are they pretty much bolt on? Or will they increase my compression much and will the block need machine work? I think I want to keep it lower for pump gas. I think I've read that the stock springs should be changed? With a mild cam and 600cfm carb, headers ect. What kind of HP and gas mileage can I expect from something like this build?

Any suggestions?

Thanks, Scott
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:21 PM
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Stock length p-rods will be the starting point if you use a flat tappet cam. If you use a performance cam, the springs will need to be changed. See the link I provided above for more.
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Old 02-04-2011, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cobalt327
Stock length p-rods will be the starting point if you use a flat tappet cam. If you use a performance cam, the springs will need to be changed. See the link I provided above for more.
Thanks cobalt. Forgive my noobness, I just want to make sure I don't mess this up. Using the CR calculator you gave me in another thread I plugged in these numbers.

Cyl= 4.030
stroke= 3.48
cc=.64 (stock 062/906 heads)
Pistons are flat=0
gasket=??using .45

With these numbers I get a CR of 8.678:1

Sound right? So here is where I am confused. Quench. Ive read .40 is the lowest you should go unless you really know what you are doing. Obviously that is not me. . .50 is safe? But with that number punched in my CR drops to the 7's. I'm shooting for 9.5:1 because I think I've read that's a good CR to be at for power/pump gas?

So here's my other question. With a 8.7:1 CR am I wasting my time with a cam bigger than the performer plus 2102 I have? I'm willing to go bigger if I'm going to see a benifit. If not I can stick with the performer. What do you think? Anyone else feel free to chime in. This being my first build I'm a little stressed about screwing it up! But I'm getting hooked on learning what it takes to build something right. Already have plans for a "real" engine for the future!
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2011, 03:02 PM
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On your gasket thickness you mean .041. Same goes for the Quench distance, it too should be .040 which is considered safe.
I calculated your compression ratio and used a .041 thickness head gasket and a estimated deck clearance of .025 and came up with 9.7:1 compression.
However, I don`t know what pistons you used. If you have "rebuilder" pistons these have .020 removed from the compression height which kills compression and quench plus makes for a lazy burn.
Good pistons will have a comp height of 1.560. Rebuilder pistons have 1.540.
There`s lots of cams you can run, but as Cobalt mentioned, if you go over .440 in lift you`ll need to have the valve guides clearanced.
The performer cam is a good cam for basic street duty and if your not looking for a racy idle and just a good mannered street engine it`ll work just fine.
However, if you have a compression ratio of 9.5:1 you can go bigger on the cam. The comp cams 268H would be my pick, it`s specs are .218 duration @.050 and .454 lift. It`ll give you a lopey idle but it still has good low end torque street manners.
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Old 02-04-2011, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleVision
On your gasket thickness you mean .041. Same goes for the Quench distance, it too should be .040 which is considered safe.
I calculated your compression ratio and used a .041 thickness head gasket and a estimated deck clearance of .025 and came up with 9.7:1 compression.
However, I don`t know what pistons you used. If you have "rebuilder" pistons these have .020 removed from the compression height which kills compression and quench plus makes for a lazy burn.
Good pistons will have a comp height of 1.560. Rebuilder pistons have 1.540.
There`s lots of cams you can run, but as Cobalt mentioned, if you go over .440 in lift you`ll need to have the valve guides clearanced.
The performer cam is a good cam for basic street duty and if your not looking for a racy idle and just a good mannered street engine it`ll work just fine.
However, if you have a compression ratio of 9.5:1 you can go bigger on the cam. The comp cams 268H would be my pick, it`s specs are .218 duration @.050 and .454 lift. It`ll give you a lopey idle but it still has good low end torque street manners.
Thanks man. I'm not sure on the pistons. They are just cast flat tops. That's all I know. I didn't know enough to ask. A very good local machine shop sold them to me for a deal with reconditioned rods, pressed to the pistons with moly rings and rod bearings for $200.00. I'll have to look closer at the box I guess. As far as that cam you mentioned? Are you sYing ok with the stock vortec heads? Cause that more lift than the .440 you mentioned. I read somewhere that the safe limit was a bit higher so maybe you meant that would still be ok? If I do have the 9.5:1 CR with that comp cam? What would guess on HP be? Edlebrock rpm intake, HEI, headers, ect...

Thanks for your help and time!
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