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Old 01-05-2009, 07:34 PM
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building a small journal 327.

hey im going to be building a small journal 327. i dont know much about the small journals. i have only worked with std. 350 journal 327. so heres some things that i would like to find out. 1) what is the actual size differance between the std. 350 journal and a small journal 327? 2)also kinda dumb one but are the connecting rod journals als smaller? 3) if anyon knows where to getsmll journal splayed main caps that would be great. or if anyone knows if theres a way to make std sized splayed caps work with the small journal that wuld be awsome too. thanx. i will also post pics. of the build when we start it also.

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Old 01-05-2009, 07:47 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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LOL, you sure are stubborn. Despite what everyone tells you, you gotta do it your way. I'm kinda the same way so I guess I understand- I just hate to see you waste all that money on a 327 when a 350 is the way to go.

With that being said run the longest rods you can while keeping the oil ring out of the wrist pin. And in your very limited class you won't see enough of a gain running small journals to justify the cost. If you're going to build the wrong displacement atleast build the right journal size.
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:05 PM
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well with that big said the stock cranks in the early 327 blocks like i have are forged from the factory rather then cast like in the later 327 and 350 so they are alot stronger and more cost efficiant then spendig $400 or $500 on a new forge crank. w do have 5 other 350 blocks laying around that we will be building at the end of the season also so not all is waisted lol. weonly have 2 races let and we are'nt in the points race anyway. but theowner of the car is stuck on using the 327. im just the mechanic lol. which i can see the theory behind it. the350 we ran didnt spin up verry fast. and from personal dyno testing experiance a 327 spins up aot faster and you can mak elativly the same hp with more torque for the same price. i still say heck wth it just build a 383 stroker and pray that we dont get engine tear down tech'ed. lmao
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:07 PM
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oh and i will take your advise with the connecting rod thing... will that make much of a differance as far as the fact that we are '0' decking the block?
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Old 01-05-2009, 08:23 PM
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327

The 327 is a fine motor and a small journal has less bearing speed which may or may not be of interest to an engineer. What I would like to know is how someone with only 23 years can possibly expect to have such a wealth of experience. I have air in tires twice that old and gasoline in float bowels and my people don,t know as much as the young fella. LOL.
Clint
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Old 01-05-2009, 09:07 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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I know enough to know that this guy in an amateur class would be better of spending more time and money on his heads, carb, pistons, rods, crank, or ignition than worrying about journal size. the difference between small and medium journals is a nonissue when you're so short on cash you have to use stock cranks. If he's not going over 500hp he'd be money and power ahead forgetting about journal sizes and some magic 3.25" crank and go with a 4bolt high nickel 350 with a forged crank, off the shelf rods, and boxed pistons.

One of the things us engineers have to do is determine where money is best spent... And in these basic builds journal size is pretty far down the list- Right below valve material selection.

Even a 23 year old pup could figure that one out.

And, if you want to learn more, do as my grandpa said, "steal with your eyes," or my dad, "pick up a book."
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Old 01-05-2009, 10:36 PM
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well for one im not talking about bearing speed im referin to the fact of quickness from 1000 rpm to 6000 rpm. a shorter stroke means more revolutions per min. and times have changed lmao. a match built 327 and 350 the 327 will have a faster 0-60 time. i have spent alot of time and money on school to pick old timers brains that grew up around this stuff. so ya i know alt more then most 24 yr old punks lol. this is what i enjoy doing and i dont plan on stoping but any info is helpfull im always up or learning more. the bearing speed is helpful due to the knowledge of knowing that can extend bearing and crank life and temps will be lower, for ability of spinning higher rpm.

but till no one has answered my questions abut the size differance. and other questins posted.
and as someone once told me hp s only a calculated number created by torque it's all about the torque. more torque then hp is always better then more hp. and the shorter the stroke and the bigger the bore the better off you are and the more the torque you can make quicker.
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Old 01-05-2009, 10:54 PM
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w aready have the heads as good as we can get without porting and polishing because w cant port and polish eather. its realy restricted class. thats why its such a challange buildng a quick car.runing a 1/4 mile circle track is a whole different animal then going in a straight 1/4 mile drag race. in that case i would agree with running a 350. but what it costs to make a 350 move as quick as a 327 is alot more and for the most part is not legal for us to do. oh and a update on the blown engine from the last race therear end locked up in the front straight andhe ws at about 6000 rpm and i think because we are runing a manual trans. it stoped he motor too fast and send a rod thru the pan. and that motor was fast. but also illegal with vortec heads and higher compression. and i have got all te specs. for that motor and what is going in to the 327 and for a cheaper cost i will be making 20hp more and almost 100ft lbs of torque more. and the 327 will be completely legal as to where the old 350 wasnt. again thank you guys for your input. it has been helpful. and has challanged my thinking i always love a good challange. oh and the only reason im wondering so much about the journal sizes because im trying to figure out what to do for splayed caps. way stronger then using a std 4 bolt. and my heads and intake are already set up same with our carb.
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Old 01-05-2009, 11:19 PM
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oh also we are only using the 327 because we got it for free we have 6 other 010 350 blocks which are high nickel blocks but we are saving those for off seaon builds for next season. we are just testing the short stroke theory on a short track. because if a 60 yr old man is runing away from the pack with a 327 then theres got to be something to it. and next season we will have 2 cars on the track. this season has just been a test season so to speak. but heres what we will be runing let me know what you think. 4.060 bore, 3.25 stroke, 51.4cc chamber, .030 gasket, '0' deck clearance with eather flat top pistons maybe dome if we cant shave the heads down enough to get the 51.4cc chamber. 496 camel hump heads(origonaly 64cc heads), we can only use back dump manifolds so we are using up swept back dump stock manifold, with an edelbrock air gap dual plane intake. we are using the dual plane because we cant have single plane and has tobe oem equivelent intake. and thats the best we could find that was oem rated. and fially we have a willy's 500cfm 2 barrel carb. due to regulations we cant run 4 barrel under certain wheel base.
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Old 01-06-2009, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talon0713
and as someone once told me hp s only a calculated number created by torque it's all about the torque. more torque then hp is always better then more hp. and the shorter the stroke and the bigger the bore the better off you are and the more the torque you can make quicker.
Id say your a bit confused. A shorter stroke will NOT naturally generate more torque, its the other way around. A longer stroked engine mostly gets its torque from leverage. Like when you use a torque wrench to snug up headbolts, the longer the wrench you use the easier it is to torque them tighter. But try spinning that long wrench around quickly and youll be working up a sweat. That is where a shorter stroke comes into play and when you start mixin up torque with RPMs then your talking about HORSEPOWER....

Now talking about the pluses and minuses of that advantage reguarding engines, the bottom line is that these different stroke lengths will cause a 327 vs a 350 to reach peak hp at a different rpm. Im building a 327 myself and Ive looked at the difference between the two quite a bit. In order to take advantage of the 327's shorter stroke, its a good ide to have a lighter car and suitable gears. The 350 will have better low end grunt which is good for a heavier car and quick holeshots, whereas a 327 will have a natural willingness to pull hard in the upper rpms.

Splayed caps? Unless you are going with some kind of forced induction or nitrous you shouldnt need them. As I recall 2 bolt mains should be fine up to about 450-500 hp. You would be much better off spending that money on lightweight pistons, aftermarket rods and a good balancing job. Doing those things will do more to beef up the bottom end than adding splayed caps because it removes stress from the rods and crank. The better you do it the less stress there will be.

But theres more. Lightening up and ballancing the bottom end will not only strenghten the motor, but it will give you more power, adding splayed caps will not..

Last edited by 65smallblock; 01-06-2009 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:36 PM
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that was great advise thanx. now on our track we usually stay in around 6000 to 7000 rpm. now a 327 would tend to spin up allot quicker to the higher rpm out of a corner then a 350 would which the track we are racing on has sharp corners and long follow thru with short straights. and our 350 engines just didn't seem to have the top end response to catch the leader. he is running a small journal 327. could his quickness out of the corners have to do with the fact of the 327 better top end ability? we were able to stay on him everywhere else but if he had a open track coming out f a corner he would just run away quick and there would be no catching up. our cars are limited to how light we can be and our car is at the limit.
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:53 PM
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One thing I like to point out is the fact that a longer stroke is not the only way to make torque. Everyone seems so hung up on the stroke thing thesedays. Gears can create torque! Different intakes and carburetors can too. But additionaly a 350 can also be made to rev.. Then you have power to weight ratios that open a whole nother can of worms. The reason the other guy is smoking you out of the turns is because his ride is well configured to do it. The motor is the heart and soul of a race car, but without EVERYTHING working in harmony you aint gonna win!

Basically what Im trying to say is that having a 350 is NOT a handicap against a 327. 350's can be made to rock and rev to! You just need to set up that car so it is pulling hard at the right time. And when it comes to engines, knowledge is power..
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Old 01-06-2009, 02:12 PM
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with that being said thats why i started this post, so i can get some good insite. as far as our car set up for the most part all the cars are the same. only difference is tire stagger camber cater and engine build. as far as our chassis set up with tire stagger and camber caster we got the car hooked up it sticks on the track anywhere you put it and it runs hard. but he just seems to power out of the corners alot faster then us. we were also running a 350 out of a modified race car and he was still running away. and our engine was built with more power. given we were able to pace him just couldnt catch him. he comes ot of corners like theres no tommorow. we could pace the rest. but when he came out of corner's he would walk away a Lil more .
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