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Old 01-19-2012, 03:11 AM
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Building street 383

Hi to everyone!
I got this part list:
-350 small block (canadian, one rear main seal) need to be boring 0.030
-383 Eagle Crankshaft, Forged 4340 steel
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ESP-435337505700/
-camshaft Comp Cams XR294HR-10
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...?csid=191&sb=2
-Roller Lifters
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-850-16/
-Springs
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-987-16/
-Retainers, locks, seals,timing set, push rods
-Only one cylinder head World Products 220 (i prefer to buy aluminum heads to cut 56lbs. looking for AFR Eliminator heads but it would cost $2000(its ok if its worth it) or to buy second WP 220 for $800?)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WRL-014250-2/
-Torque converter 3000 stall speed
TCI Auto 242963, strange but it doesn't have anti-ballooning plate
-Intake Manifold Performer Air-Gap
Edelbrock 7201
-Holley 750CFM carb
-no pistons, rings, rods, bearings, oil pump are bought yet

Everything I bought about 2 years ago. I received it about year ago cause shipping problems.
2 years ago I wanted to build some kind of this
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...e/viewall.html
but time is running, and company's makes new greater parts and people makes more powerful more durable and interesting engines
so please could anyone suggest me some most powerful street engine part list (uses my available parts or not)?
My car is 1969 Camaro. Right now it has stock engine(350), TCI 700R4(buy TH350 or TH400 or 700R4 600hp kit in mind ), stock GM 10bolt 8.2 rear end 4.1(buy 9inch moser in mind). Also for this kind of engine I will buy heavy-duty driveshaft, install DSE minitubs to put on 26x10inch slicks.
I want to use this car in local street drag and light drag racing.

Thanks.

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Last edited by solidmetalbro; 01-19-2012 at 03:27 AM.
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:10 AM
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"I want to use this car in local street drag and light drag racing."
I don't think anyone on this board condones street racing, even in Russia, so you may not get a lot of help on this thread.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
"I want to use this car in local street drag and light drag racing."
I don't think anyone on this board condones street racing, even in Russia, so you may not get a lot of help on this thread.
Ok, I try to explain what i mean street drag I am not a street maniac who ride fast on the street where traffic and crowd of walking all around people its all about abandoned places where is more less good asphalt but its the street asphalt not a good grip drag track and no people are there. even no homes around where it possible to disturb or wake up some people by loud noises.
Unfortunately we don't have real good tracks where is a good grip surface and where safety is a big deal like in US.
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Old 01-20-2012, 04:14 AM
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oh, i understand what are you talking about . I don't mean street racing I mean street/strip. The engine that allows me to cruise on the street and effectively run on the strip.
my fault, sorry.
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Old 01-20-2012, 05:46 AM
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Just a few short comments

seems like a good build.

A built th350 or th400 would be better than the 700r, but of course no OD.

4.11 gears with a limited slip diff would be a good idea.

Heads are very important to making power. AFR's are really good but cost a lot. But, I think I would just order another world products 220cc head for $800 then do a little dyi (don't it yourself) bowl clean up and a new performance valve job.

I don't like the rpm air gap intake due to slow warmups. Takes 30 minutes of driving to get rid of the off idle stumble if temps drop below 50 or 60F. I prefer the regular rpm intake. Your combo would most likely do slightly better with a victor jr intake.

will need 3 inch dual exhaust.

need to set the suspension up for drag racing if you plan to use all the power.

Could always use N02 if you need more power.

if you really want to make a lot of hp then look into fuel injected turbo build. You could had injected and turbo charged your current engine and made 600hp easily for the same amount of money. Will need an aftermarket block to go past 650 hp.

Next time consider starting with an LS engine (later model)

good luck!
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Old 01-24-2012, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
Just a few short comments

seems like a good build.

A built th350 or th400 would be better than the 700r, but of course no OD.

4.11 gears with a limited slip diff would be a good idea.

Heads are very important to making power. AFR's are really good but cost a lot. But, I think I would just order another world products 220cc head for $800 then do a little dyi (don't it yourself) bowl clean up and a new performance valve job.

I don't like the rpm air gap intake due to slow warmups. Takes 30 minutes of driving to get rid of the off idle stumble if temps drop below 50 or 60F. I prefer the regular rpm intake. Your combo would most likely do slightly better with a victor jr intake.

will need 3 inch dual exhaust.

need to set the suspension up for drag racing if you plan to use all the power.

Could always use N02 if you need more power.

if you really want to make a lot of hp then look into fuel injected turbo build. You could had injected and turbo charged your current engine and made 600hp easily for the same amount of money. Will need an aftermarket block to go past 650 hp.

Next time consider starting with an LS engine (later model)

good luck!
Thanks for reply! You have a cool truck!

I'm thinking about Moser or Currie 9 inch 31splines with 4.1 gear with Detroit locker TrueTrack diff

Sure, I wanted to buy port and polish kit to clean WP220, but the weight of iron heads don't give me a sleep. What do you mean ''new performance valve job''?

About intake. Do you mean the engine warm up slowly or intake? cause i got -4 F on the street and the engine warmup to 160F for about 15minutes with the electric choke at 1500-1000rpm.
And if you talking about intake I was always thinking that this kind of intake making air cool(because of air gap) and colder air more dense so contains more oxygen so that's gain up hp

''will need 3 inch dual exhaust.'' \/ already have it with h-pipe and summit headers

NO2 is a good option. I have that kind of crankshaft. But i don't know what better a heavier forged system that can hold NO2 or the lighter system that can rev up much easier. Also I need anti-balooning torque converter for NO2.

I agree, Fuel injected system is cool, but because it cost a lot I will consider EFI and turbo charged not so soon. Right now it's all about as much as possible gain up efficient of the engine.

LS Engine is good, but again it cost a lot, especially for me - problems with customs clearance, taxes, shipping costs, shipping time(0.5-1 year)
All I have in 'stock' are dead tahoe blocks
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:48 AM
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the intake needs to be hot enough so the fuel vaporizes. If not , it just pools up and the engine stumbles. Airgaps take a long time to get warm. You need a warm intake with a carb. Under 60F and the airgaps suck, that is my experience.

efi and turbos are cheap. You can do a megasquirt efi for 1000.00 and put on a turbo for another 1000. Less than you are spending now.
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
the intake needs to be hot enough so the fuel vaporizes. If not , it just pools up and the engine stumbles. Airgaps take a long time to get warm. You need a warm intake with a carb. Under 60F and the airgaps suck, that is my experience.

efi and turbos are cheap. You can do a megasquirt efi for 1000.00 and put on a turbo for another 1000. Less than you are spending now.
understand what you mean. It probably uses in high performance like NASCAR, drag racing where the engine warms up before race.

Maybe you can give me some good examples about efi and turbo for 1000bucks? used or new?
on summitracing.com the cheapest efi system I found was
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PFS-70026/ for $1800
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-550-402/ for $2000

Thank you
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:07 PM
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You can get a system Like Megasquirt II (with ignition timing control) for less than $500. Then get injectors, sensors, throttle body........ Not a plug and play efi system that will cost 2K. But with megasquirt, you can use many different sensors, throttle body, intakes..... For about $1000 you can do it yourself but will take some work on your part. Look on MegaSquirts website.

A couple of t3' turbos from 1981 to 1983 280zx turbo or from 1984 to 88 300zx turbo will work nicely on a 350. I get good T3's at my local U-Pull-It auto junk yard for $50/each. hard to get off but can be done with basic tools. You can also get good T3 turbos on ebay for about 200 or 300 each. Small block turbo exhaust manifold are also plentiful on ebay (for a t3 turbine).

you don't need an intercooler until 10 psi of boost. and again there are many intercoolers on ebay 100 or 200 dollars. You will need to do a little extra pipe routing but most any exhaust shop can do it.

if you have a 300hp/325ftlb 350 and add 7.5 psi of boost then it will make 450hp/ 488 ftlb, 10psi will make 504hp/546ftlbs, and 15 psi of boost will make 600hp/650ftlbs. Torque is the nice thing. It allows the use of stock gears and converter. Keeps the car a daily driver while make serious power. T3 60 trims turbo that came on the cars mentioned above will max out a 300hp each.
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
You can get a system Like Megasquirt II (with ignition timing control) for less than $500. Then get injectors, sensors, throttle body........ Not a plug and play efi system that will cost 2K. But with megasquirt, you can use many different sensors, throttle body, intakes..... For about $1000 you can do it yourself but will take some work on your part. Look on MegaSquirts website.

A couple of t3' turbos from 1981 to 1983 280zx turbo or from 1984 to 88 300zx turbo will work nicely on a 350. I get good T3's at my local U-Pull-It auto junk yard for $50/each. hard to get off but can be done with basic tools. You can also get good T3 turbos on ebay for about 200 or 300 each. Small block turbo exhaust manifold are also plentiful on ebay (for a t3 turbine).

you don't need an intercooler until 10 psi of boost. and again there are many intercoolers on ebay 100 or 200 dollars. You will need to do a little extra pipe routing but most any exhaust shop can do it.

if you have a 300hp/325ftlb 350 and add 7.5 psi of boost then it will make 450hp/ 488 ftlb, 10psi will make 504hp/546ftlbs, and 15 psi of boost will make 600hp/650ftlbs. Torque is the nice thing. It allows the use of stock gears and converter. Keeps the car a daily driver while make serious power. T3 60 trims turbo that came on the cars mentioned above will max out a 300hp each.
Big Thanks to you for the info!!
I will research Megasquirt system. it's not very easy to choose what to buy from all that stuff), but i like the idea of it.

I will look about used Turbo's.But I think used turbo don't last too long or if it's from crashed car it probably will cost more(in my country) than on ebay. It will be hard to determine what turbo is good and what is not on ebay. But I heard that turbo's can be rebuild.
so if i will build 383 450-500hp/450-500tq i will have 600hp/600tq with 7psi of boost of two t3 turbos?
How about turbohole before 3000rpm? or it doesn't feel?
honestly i will have some problems with making(or ordering) too difficult exhaust manifold, but maybe it will take its time.

What do you think about supercharger like this?
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/product.php?p=180
for my mind it has advantages:
-simple installation
-using carburetor also making it easy to use(maybe)
disadvantages:
-using overall power of an engine so its not fuel economical at idle like turbos
-needs to buy supercharger carb with mechanical sec.
-maybe some hood clearance problems

Thank you for the reply!
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
You can get a system Like Megasquirt II (with ignition timing control) for less than $500. Then get injectors, sensors, throttle body........ Not a plug and play efi system that will cost 2K. But with megasquirt, you can use many different sensors, throttle body, intakes..... For about $1000 you can do it yourself but will take some work on your part. Look on MegaSquirts website.

A couple of t3' turbos from 1981 to 1983 280zx turbo or from 1984 to 88 300zx turbo will work nicely on a 350. I get good T3's at my local U-Pull-It auto junk yard for $50/each. hard to get off but can be done with basic tools. You can also get good T3 turbos on ebay for about 200 or 300 each. Small block turbo exhaust manifold are also plentiful on ebay (for a t3 turbine).

you don't need an intercooler until 10 psi of boost. and again there are many intercoolers on ebay 100 or 200 dollars. You will need to do a little extra pipe routing but most any exhaust shop can do it.

if you have a 300hp/325ftlb 350 and add 7.5 psi of boost then it will make 450hp/ 488 ftlb, 10psi will make 504hp/546ftlbs, and 15 psi of boost will make 600hp/650ftlbs. Torque is the nice thing. It allows the use of stock gears and converter. Keeps the car a daily driver while make serious power. T3 60 trims turbo that came on the cars mentioned above will max out a 300hp each.
Turbocharging doesn't quite work like that. at 15psi he's likely to be closer to 500hp. It's not linear.
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:17 PM
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sure it is linear. As long as the tune is right. there are no "belt losses" with a turbo, unlike a super charger or blower.

I got exactly 100% more power with 15 psi of boost on my engine and exactly 50% more power with 7.5 psi of boost. Very linear. Got linearity at 10 psi also.

T3's 60 trim compressors peak out at 300hp. so if you build a 400hp engine and run 7.5 psi then you can make 600hp with 7.5 psi of boost.

However, to run 7.5 psi of boost on a SBC, you woukld need to run about 8.5:1 cr max for pump gas. Furthermore, if you want boost at low rpms, then you will need to use a small turbine and small turbines don't like cams with overlap. so, hard to build big hp with small cams and low boost.

I would guess a 383 with a good set of heads and a cam in the 255 degree range (advertised) with 8.5:1 would make maybe 350hp/425ftlbs (base). Then add 7.5 psi of boost and the engine would make 525hp/640ftlbs. If you lower compression to 7.5:1 then base hp would drop to 330hp/400ftlbs then add 12 psi of boost then the engine would make 600hp/725ftlbs.

use this formula to estimate power from boost (turbo boost).

(boost psi + 14.7)/14.7 = pressure ratio

pressure ratio x (hp or torque) unboosted = new power (hp and torque).
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:25 PM
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The turbo is a centrifugal device, the output curve in air flow vs RPM is not linear, could be what ap was getting at?

And IMO there is no way that an engine would respond that way to boost pressure is there? Under varying load and with RPM and AFR fluctuations you could never count on a strictly linear curve to boost vs HP/torx.

I guess there could be such a thing as a perfect machine in the making? we are gonna need help from the electronic engine controlled sub forum to fire up and harness this turbo sucker

Not sure if a turbo even appeals to the OP in the first place. Metal bro, first find the best machinist you can afford and trust at the same time.
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:13 PM
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Thank you guys for support this thread.
I found interesting article about Vortec supercharger for carburetor
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...arger_install/
As they said with 7 psi of boost engine have 643 hp at 6,000 rpm and 600 lb-ft between 3,500 and 5,500rpm.
without blower it has 476 hp at 5,500 rpm and 505 lb-ft at 4,400 rpm with 9.1:1 compression ratio
i guess that's vortec heads with 185cc or 170cc intake runners
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Old 01-27-2012, 04:24 PM
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look at this turbo install.

http://www.jpmagazine.com/techarticl...rbo/index.html

they ran 6.5 psi of boost.

and picked up exactly a 44% increase on hp and 47% in torque

(6.5 + 14.7)/14.7= 1.44

like I said, no losses like you get with a belt drive boost system.

I had the same results with my car. Went from 135hp at the wheels with no boost, 225 with 10 psi, 270 with 15 psi. 2.8 liter inline 6 Z engine.

furthermore, rear mount turbos DO have losses due to less than ideal install location.
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