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-   -   cadillac northstar 4.6 swap info needed (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/cadillac-northstar-4-6-swap-info-needed-148376.html)

atotalnincompoop 11-17-2008 07:58 AM

cadillac northstar 4.6 swap info needed
 
i was all set to start to build a mild chevy v8 for my 58 coupe deville when it hit me, why not put in a northstar 300hp aluminum v8 with a 700r tranny.
seems simple enough, right?
i did a search in the archives and found some info, but would really like to talk to some one who has done it and can list off everything that has to be collected beforehand and then installed. someone who knows the tricks and or has a link to some site that outlines the procedure.
discuss.... :)

jimfulco 11-17-2008 08:54 PM

http://www.chrfab.com/

Or, run over the backside of an XLR (or better yet an XLR-V, what with the blower and all) bad enough total it, then buy the carcass from your insurance company. :D

Might be a good idea to run over to www.cadillacforums.com and search around for Northstar (aka N* over there) problems with head gaskets, head bolt threads, mid-block gasket leaks, etc., before you shell out a lot of cash.

atotalnincompoop 11-18-2008 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimfulco
http://www.chrfab.com/

Or, run over the backside of an XLR (or better yet an XLR-V, what with the blower and all) bad enough total it, then buy the carcass from your insurance company. :D

Might be a good idea to run over to www.cadillacforums.com and search around for Northstar (aka N* over there) problems with head gaskets, head bolt threads, mid-block gasket leaks, etc., before you shell out a lot of cash.

those are great links thanks, there is an xlr around here somewhere, i didn't realize they were supercharged, hmmmm, food for thought :evil: :D

joe_padavano 11-18-2008 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atotalnincompoop
those are great links thanks, there is an xlr around here somewhere, i didn't realize they were supercharged, hmmmm, food for thought :evil: :D

Not all XLRs are supercharged, only the V-series. Most have the normally aspirated 320 HP.

rachet ralph 11-20-2008 09:22 PM

north star
 
i know a used car dealer has a deville with a north star in it, it's front wheel drive, and why you want one of them everyone this used car dealer gets needs work just did a starter in one them today, mounts under the intake, and what you going to use for your ecm the one in the caillac has three in them PCM BCM and ECM all work togethere i'd say use a mega squirt ECM, if me i'd use a 500 or a 472 in it if was me but to each there own, you could use the intake from a 472 or 425 if you want E.F.I. and use a dist. from a 368, and use the MEGA SQUIRT II ECM, i think i have a couple links for some E.F.I stuuf for cadillacs.

Filmjay 11-30-2008 02:53 AM

ChrFab.com is really the best place I've found for aftermarket Northstar performance. I'm using a 4.0L N* for my project.
But they're NOT cheap. For what you'd spend on a performance rebuild, you could easily score a 500-600hp turn key crate 383. With just the parts from CHRFab for a full performance rebuild, not including labor, will run in the $5-6K range.

Plus, Northstars are REALLY complicated engines, with nearly twice the parts as an LS1.
Though, the aforementioned problems were from the factory and are easily remedied by paying more attention to those areas when you rebuild.

Only reason I'm using the Northstar is because I already have one...that, and I'm doing a V8 240Z...and I've yet to see a Northstar in a Z. Otherwise, I'd have just picked up a nice long block from elsewhere.

joe_padavano 11-30-2008 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filmjay
...I'm doing a V8 240Z...and I've yet to see a Northstar in a Z. Otherwise, I'd have just picked up a nice long block from elsewhere.

I applaud you for not giving in to the booooooring SBC swap. I'm working on a Northstar into an E30 BMW. What are you doing for the water pump? That seems to be the biggest problem with using the FWD N* in a RWD application. The water pump ends up right where the master cylinder wants to be.

Filmjay 12-01-2008 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_padavano
I applaud you for not giving in to the booooooring SBC swap. I'm working on a Northstar into an E30 BMW. What are you doing for the water pump? That seems to be the biggest problem with using the FWD N* in a RWD application. The water pump ends up right where the master cylinder wants to be.

I'm not gonna lie...the N* scares the crap outta me. LOTS of stuff to break...twice as much as an LSx...not to mention the 2-piece block :eek: and the softer, more pourous cast of the pre-00 northstars. (I have a '95 4.0L) There's a reason people use 350's a lot...they're like a big boy's erector set. They're stupid-simple to work on, you can do a LOT with them, and they're vastly more forgiving for someone that might not know as much as they should (like me. haha)

But for cooling, I'm already planning on a remote electric setup. Although they don't have them on their site, CHRFab either has a conversion kit, or is working on one. I dunno if they have it for sale yet, but I'll be doing a remote setup either way as the Z's engine bay will be at a premium for space at the firewall with the northstar.

You can get a remote electric pump from Jegs, Dedenbear, CSR and others. Another advantage of using a remote electric pump is that you can wire it through an attenuator or voltage controller, put that sucker in the dash, and control your cooling from the drivers seat.
Running a little hotter than you'd like at idle or in heavy traffic? Just bump the knob up a bit and increase flow. :P Also, potentially cooler temps for those 1/4 passes....and maybe even a couple more mpg's.

Of course, you'd need the requisite temp gauge as well as a pressure gauge...but you could eliminate the thermostat in the coolant passage and get the above effects. :D ...of course, not TOO low or the ECM will be in a perpetual warm up mode in these motors.
I'm still waiting for my service manuals to arrive before I know what I can and can't do yet. I've got a LOT of learning to do. :mwink:

flemcadiddlehopper 03-26-2009 09:44 PM

BMW Northstar....Me Too!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_padavano
I applaud you for not giving in to the booooooring SBC swap. I'm working on a Northstar into an E30 BMW. What are you doing for the water pump? That seems to be the biggest problem with using the FWD N* in a RWD application. The water pump ends up right where the master cylinder wants to be.

I'm putting a Northstar in a BMW E28 5 series. I plan on using a timing cover plate similar to the CHRFab one, but have the stock water pump machined off to bolt thru it and run coolant to flanges on the back of the head (these flanges can be seen in "project cars" of High Performance Salvage's website),and mount a larger pulley on it as it is now running off the crank. This way the replacement pump will still be Caddy and the stock t-stat can be used.
If you are planning on using a electric water pump, then I would suggest using the AEM computer for engine management as it has 16 extra outputs that can be programed in. Pump speed could be changed to follow engine temp and engine loads to help maintain temp better. This could be vital as I am sure that rad space will be at a minimum too.

I will try and keep you posted more as I learn more during my project.

Cheers, Gordo.

cacsmret 03-26-2009 11:32 PM

N*Star swap
 
Still got the N*star donor vehicle in the yard; a '94 Eldorado. Was going to transplant the N*star into a 67 Deville ragtop; exhaust, oilpan and waterpump seems to be the biggest issues. I have all the donor ecms; you can reverse the N*Star intake; and I too was looking at Megasquirt as an alternative. As a matter of fact, I'm going to use the spouse's I6, 250 6 cylinder Mustang convertible as a guniea pig for the Megasquirt, swapping the 1 barrel carb for a mid-eighties Ford TBI (she floods the 'Stang all the time). I've picked up a '70 Eldorado 500 ci motor and a 76 Eldorado fuel injected intake manifold to also use Megasquirt if the 'Stang works out. I have an Eldlebrock intake for the 500 ci, however the hood clearance prohibits the 4-inch height increase without hood modification on the Deville; which also rules out using adapter plates and a Ford 460 EFI setup. A radical modification would be to graft the entire N*Star cradle and FWD setup to your project car....lots of work, but might be worth it to avoid the x-shaped frame on a '58 Caddi (if I remember properly).

sam_bo3 03-27-2009 12:39 AM

for some North star swap forums ya might check out a fiero forum. I have heard a couple people talk about dropping them in one. Although those would be front wheel drive versions.

flemcadiddlehopper 03-27-2009 09:15 AM

megasquirt ????
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cacsmret
Still got the N*star donor vehicle in the yard; a '94 Eldorado. Was going to transplant the N*star into a 67 Deville ragtop; exhaust, oilpan and waterpump seems to be the biggest issues. I have all the donor ecms; you can reverse the N*Star intake; and I too was looking at Megasquirt as an alternative. As a matter of fact, I'm going to use the spouse's I6, 250 6 cylinder Mustang convertible as a guniea pig for the Megasquirt, swapping the 1 barrel carb for a mid-eighties Ford TBI (she floods the 'Stang all the time). I've picked up a '70 Eldorado 500 ci motor and a 76 Eldorado fuel injected intake manifold to also use Megasquirt if the 'Stang works out. I have an Eldlebrock intake for the 500 ci, however the hood clearance prohibits the 4-inch height increase without hood modification on the Deville; which also rules out using adapter plates and a Ford 460 EFI setup. A radical modification would be to graft the entire N*Star cradle and FWD setup to your project car....lots of work, but might be worth it to avoid the x-shaped frame on a '58 Caddi (if I remember properly).


I looked at the Megasquirt site......that looks like a tonne of extra work.

The northstar engine already has everything to needs to run really strong,it's just that it's ecm wants to talk to every sensor and all the other seven computers on the vehicle. That is what would keep it from running right (in closed loop). Take a look at the AEM ones. They com ready to go ...plug and play. Then you can go in and adjust the program to what you want,without have to know any trig algorythms, plus it has up to 16 extra outputs for boost control,NOS ,or anything you need.
It costs more but it would mean way less time in set-up and soldering.

Cheers Gordo.

flemcadiddlehopper 03-27-2009 08:48 PM

northstar waterpump
 
Ok, I am now joining the electric water pump camp. I spent the day planing the mounting of all the accessories,and there truly is no space for the water pump up front. With the Alt. on the right and the p/s pump on the left and the tensioner mounted up top,under the throttle it will look nice and clean,uncluttered. The electric water pump will have to mount back on the subframe near the strut tower. This way the computer can control the pump speed as needed, as well as the fans.

Does anyone out there know a source for trans adapter bell housing for Getrag trans? There are lots of sources that I have found for all American stuff, but i plan to use my BMW trans and rear end. This was a 146 mph car with a 2.8L straight six that produced only 190hp, I shudder to think what it will be capable of with 300hp and 300ft/lbs from an engine that weighs 65lbs less.

Gordo.

moonman42002 07-12-2010 10:37 PM

i am thinking about swaping a northstar into my 95 pontaic grand prix 2 door gt any body have any sugestions . i know it has been done to a 95 montie


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