Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board

Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/)
-   Engine (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/engine/)
-   -   Cam grind numbers (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/cam-grind-numbers-229469.html)

s-10again! 02-12-2013 09:10 AM

Cam grind numbers
 
i have a REED CAMS serial number TM264. grind number is 330 TM264H-TM272H-110A3 it has a duration of IN.214 EX218 @ .050 . lift IN.450 EX.461. running duration IN 262 EX 272. spring pressure open 260-280 and 80-100 closed. lobe centers at 110 degrees at cam. exhaust centerline 116 intake centerline 104. what would this cam be good for and how do you understand what these numbers do for performance? the only thing i understand is that a cam is 720 degrees and the duration degrees are the amount of time subtracted from 720 degrees that the valves are open. I would assume spring pressures are stock spring configuration and the grind number at the end sais A3 meaning 3 degrees advance ground into the cam. what does all this mean for horsepower, how would i understand what this cam could do in different engine configurations? also would this be a good cam for a 305? im guessing that judging by all the things that have been said about lsa and .050 duration specs, this cam is not much for a 383...but much too much for a 305. im trying to get clue how to "understand" application. i have blueprinting skills and have limited machine shop background (not automotive but still mill and lathe and blueprint knowledge) so SOME of these numbers i understand but some i dont. If i understand this correctly, correct me if im wrong, the duration of the exhaust at 218 @.050 with the lift of .461 is max for stock springs because if the lift were more than this the springs wouldnt fully close even at respectable rpm within the camshaft rpm spec. and the same would hold true if you kept the lift number the same and shortened the duration? so whats better, lift or duration? If i were to get some great valve springs would a small duration number matched with high lift be good for a low rpm 305? also the lobe centers i have no clue how that affects any of this. advise, correct and teach me please?

s-10again! 02-12-2013 09:22 AM

by the way, this is a camshaft that i installed in a marine 350. it only made 300 hp on a desktop dyno at 4700 rpms with the parts list i used and the guy at the marina who did the desktop dyno for me said i am an idiot. and i am. he proceeded to show me how some double springs and a different cam would have made 400 hp with my flattop shortblock (that i build with silvolites) with some different grind numbers. and it would do it at 4000 RPMS!!!!!:spank: i am an idiot and i want to get this 305 right on the money. shop that sold me the cam asked me about a parts list, i told him i had stock heads and thats the cam he gave me. he added no advise to this like the genius marine tech guy. the marine genius guy told me that the shop tech shoulda told me i was building a turd but i think he wanted to dust off this old cam and sell it. by the way the boat does haul some *** because it was origionally a 260 hp 350. i was able to prop up one size and ontop of that, i gained 1000 rpms above the old rpm and this thing sounds incredible at an idle, youd think i had a big block in that thing. did 46 mph, now it does 55 mph. id have the marine guy help me build up this 305 but he goes to florida in the winter and i am buying parts now. that is why i am asking so much on the forum lately. also whene i try to ask the marine guy to explain things he tells me to buy a book. hes probably right. he has been so far.

F-BIRD'88 02-12-2013 10:04 AM

Good in a 305 with improved heads, 10:1 cr a hi rise dual plane and headers.
In a 305 it wil want a 3000 stall and a bit of gear. A 4.10 is not too much.
A manual trans works well too. A 750cfm carb is not too much Can use a slightly more agressive
valve spring for more rpm.

Power from 2500 to 6000 in a 305. Not real spunky with a stock OEM low stall converter, in a 305.

s-10again! 02-12-2013 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 (Post 1645505)
Good in a 305 with improved heads, 10:1 cr a hi rise dual plane and headers.
In a 305 it wil want a 3000 stall and a bit of gear. A 4.10 is not too much.
A manual trans works well too. A 750cfm carb is not too much Can use a slightly more agressive
valve spring for more rpm.

Power from 2500 to 6000 in a 305. Not real spunky with a stock OEM low stall converter, in a 305.

thanx f-bird that is definately what i was asking but its only part of it. How the heck do you just see all this? i understand i cant see 30 years of experience in a few sentances, but what numbers are giving you these clues?

vinniekq2 02-12-2013 10:14 AM

duration is the length of time that the valves are open
you need to have the valves open long enough to fill the cylinder.
think of filling a jar under a tap
when its full some flows back towards the top or splashes back

now put the lid on this jar,shake it and walk into another room,open the jar and pour out the water in another sink

how fast you fill the jar depends on the neck size or opening size(valve size in an engine)the water pressure from the tap and tap size (intake runner size)
lid on as soon as the jar is as full as possible without spilling

empty jar by turning upside down with lid off(think of a long neck pop bottle Vs a short neck pop bottle for exhaust)put lid back on as fast as possible so you can go back and refill at tap.
any wasted time and spillage is cam/head/carb/header inefficiency

F-BIRD'88 02-12-2013 10:26 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by s-10again! (Post 1645510)
thanx f-bird that is definately what i was asking but its only part of it. How the heck do you just see all this? i understand i cant see 30 years of experience in a few sentances, but what numbers are giving you these clues?

Why don't you build it and find out.
A stock un modified 305 head will really limit the power.
If you want the 305 to work and the cam to work the heads need to flow
Either fully port or replace. 1.94x 1.50 best.
You got to be willing to work the heads.
You are right and I'm not going to type out 30 years of experience.
The cr matters. But 10:1 is too high for a boat motor.
but just right for the street and critical.

Not a bad fun lil 305 motor for a Camaro or Malibu or light street rod. 330 ish HP. maybe more.
remember, likes gear and a converter.
built 305's need to rev up. the gears and converter make it fun and spunky on the street.

Here is a .040" over 305 10:1 plan I'd be tempted to add a 1.6 rocker to the intake side with that cam and ported heads.
Cleaned up vortecs shaved to 58cc and a RPM intake would rock on this 305.

s-10again! 02-12-2013 11:15 AM

whene you say modified...if i were to grind the ports myself...could that help? as i understand it now, it is bad if i smooth out the intake runners and ports, i will loose precious atomization at low rpm? is it even necessary to port the heads if theyll never see any high rpms? how much "flow" do i really need at a low rpm? how do i know what flow number ill need to get intake velocity? there is so much experience needed to hop up a stock motor. i would just pick a old standby build and go to town if if i wanted raw power. speaking more of the heads, i dont even know what the intake runner cc's are, nor the exhaust. they are 1.84 434 castings. i guess at this point the heads are the real factor. parts matching is something for veteran builders i guess. i kinda understand it but once you figure out one aspect there is another limiting factor that kills any medium i thought there might have been. :drunk: thank you very very much for your patience and insight.

F-BIRD'88 02-12-2013 11:22 AM

the 434 heads stink. You cannot get high horsepower from a small motor at low rpm.
If you want tlow rpm get a diesel or a 454.

live a little rev it up. you want to agressively port the head. but not polish . and don;t bother starting with a #434 head.

Find a 4416 or a 601 or a vortec head. Or a 081 or 083 head. The 450 and 434 low perf 305 heads suck.
start with the HO heads and port the crap out of them.
You need flow to make HP. and RPM.
When you port a stock head for power you need to make serious dent in it.
YOU NEED FLOW. You will not get flow by *****ing around with a dremmel and sanding rolls.

This is not a low rpm motor,,, cam, especially in a 305.
when you cam up a motor you need to rev it up.

when you hot rod a 305 you need to rev it up. In a 305, this cam does not get real busy till 3000 rpm.
it wants to rev.

Hot Rodded small motors want to rev ...

You cannot increase the low rpm torque output by adding cam to it. especially on a 305.
Find some 4.10's

s-10again! 02-12-2013 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 (Post 1645514)
Why don't you build it and find out.
A stock un modified 305 head will really limit the power.
If you want the 305 to work and the cam to work the heads need to flow
Either fully port or replace. 1.94x 1.50 best.
You got to be willing to work the heads.
You are right and I'm not going to type out 30 years of experience.
The cr matters. But 10:1 is too high for a boat motor.
but just right for the street and critical.

Not a bad fun lil 305 motor for a Camaro or Malibu or light street rod. 330 ish HP. maybe more.
remember, likes gear and a converter.
built 305's need to rev up. the gears and converter make it fun and spunky on the street.

Here is a .040" over 305 10:1 plan I'd be tempted to add a 1.6 rocker to the intake side with that cam and ported heads.
Cleaned up vortecs shaved to 58cc and a RPM intake would rock on this 305.

you have my attention f-bird. my local boneyard has a 97 l30 in a wrecked cheyenne. i am on the fence. this would be a 1500 dollar fresh roller build up. it'd be one heckava fuel saver in an s-10. im really on the fence! it would be really easy to talk me into this. make it easy for me and tell me more of you opinions for this ideah you have f-bird. summit has this awsome kit for 350 bucks shipped with .040 silvolite flattop valve relieved pistons. i would need an intake manifold, double roller gear set and somehow find a timing cover for it(opinions please), heads would be redone and block done, by reputable machinist. reuse old camshaft and lifters maybe? doesnt the l30 share a camshaft with the l31? Either way im up to about 2 grand. if i do the other old style engine its cheaper but if i build this l30...itll probably never leave the engine bay of this s-10 ever. and it will be totally fast enough in this s-10 and fuel efficient. if you think im on the right track i may actually go through with this for the extra 1000 dollars. should i use the l30 heads or mill the l31's? i dont alot about milled heads but i understand the intake would need milled to match? and as well, valvetrain instability? i would not mill l31 heads if this were the case and if the l30s are just not going to cut the mustard i will not do this build. im trying to make this easy now because i feel like i have annoyed some you helfull guys.

F-BIRD'88 02-12-2013 11:49 AM

If you want fuel mileage get a Honda.. If you want fun Supercharge a 305.

You can buy a whole rusted out car with a 305 in it for $100. or less.

If you want gas mileage from a L-30 305 vortec motor install it stock.
Get all the stock stuff from the donor truck. Trans, computer, fuel system, exhaust cats
everything. Install the WHOLE system in your S-10 in stock form and don;t touch it.
Shut the hood and drive it.

But of you want fun, Supercharge a 305.

JeffB 02-12-2013 12:06 PM

With the cost of aftermarket heads available you are wasting your time and money fooling with a stock head.The budget you have to work with will take some smart shopping for parts,the cam you have would produce some good low end and mid-range power but you should go for a 350 build as those parts are more budget friendly.

s-10again! 02-12-2013 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 (Post 1645555)
If you want fuel mileage get a Honda.. If you want fun Supercharge a 305.

You can buy a whole rusted out car with a 305 in it for $100. or less.

If you want gas mileage from a L-30 305 vortec motor install it stock.
Get all the stock stuff from the donor truck. Trans, computer, fuel system, exhaust cats
everything. Install the WHOLE system in your S-10 in stock form and don;t touch it.
Shut the hood and drive it.

But of you want fun, Supercharge a 305.

my brother in law who's a a flat rate tech at a gm dealership said the exact same thing bout the mileage. that may very well be the answer i was looking for all along. only problem that is that i wanted the roller tip rockers double roller chain and gear set and smooth out the exhaust ports and knock down the ridges on the intake ports and slap a .015 head gasket on there for the quench distance. the head gasket will probably screw with the computer right?

F-BIRD'88 02-12-2013 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffB (Post 1645558)
With the cost of aftermarket heads available you are wasting your time and money fooling with a stock head.The budget you have to work with will take some smart shopping for parts,the cam you have would produce some good low end and mid-range power but you should go for a 350 build as those parts are more budget friendly.


In other words you don't know how to hot rod a 305.

s-10again! 02-12-2013 12:16 PM

not a damn clue....ooo look somethin shiney!!! im under the impression there the same parts and can be swapped to a larger 350 later on. need more rpm for 350 parts in a 305 to work right.

vinniekq2 02-12-2013 12:27 PM

305 Vs 350,which is better
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffB (Post 1645558)
With the cost of aftermarket heads available you are wasting your time and money fooling with a stock head.The budget you have to work with will take some smart shopping for parts,the cam you have would produce some good low end and mid-range power but you should go for a 350 build as those parts are more budget friendly.

auto wrecker 350s are cheap too.
either engine will work. look around for a deal.If you want dirt cheap,dont care how long it lasts,moderate power,
buy a complete running car from a wreck. take out engine,(pick a car that has a roller motor)regasket/clean/replace timing chain,buy a cheap cam,use FBs back yard porting method,drive a car that performs as it is built.
enjoy,,,


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:55 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.