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-   -   Cam/lifter break in Oil (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/cam-lifter-break-oil-221510.html)

27TRoadsterguy 07-10-2012 09:42 AM

Cam/lifter break in Oil
 
I am replacing the cam/lifters in my Chev 292 inline 6. I went to a thread on the forum 2004 date about oil and break-in lubes for engines. The thread centered around the zinc content (none) in the new oils. I cannot find moly in any of the auto stores here. I found 2 GM (additives) one is a Cam/lifter break in lube the other is a new engine additive that can be added to the crankcase for break in purposes. Now, my question, since the lack of zinc is something we are stuck with, I wonder about using Lucas Synthetic oil supplement (since I use mobil 1 in the crankcase) for a cam /lifter pre lube. I do all the good stuff, with engine pre-lube, using a dummy distributor shaft on a drill to fill all the journals and pressurize the oil system.

The attribute of the good synthetic oils is anti-scuff, which why I use it in all my engines with good result. This is the first time that I have built an engine, since my teen age days of hot rodding(i am 65 now) so my knowledge may not be quite up to date. The last engine I built was in 1969, a hot Chev 409, which served me well for 20 years.

Thanks to all.....

Bart 07-10-2012 10:12 AM

joe gibbs

Joe Gibbs Driven - Break-In Oils

327NUT 07-10-2012 12:36 PM

27roadsterguy....if you do a search on this forum you will find several days worth of reading on break in procedure and what oil to use. The new oils have been mandated by the EPA to reduce the amount of zinc/phos. Rotella T used to be "around" 1200 ppm and now it's 800 ppm, still good but could use a little extra for a new engine.

There are several companys offering a true break in oil like Joe Gibbs, Comp Cams and others. Some guys use the Valvoline VR-1 racing oil which still has lots of the good stuff. The general concensus on synthetic oil for breaking in an engine is a NO-NO, the stuff is just too slick and does not allow the parts to burnish against one another or to take a set. I'm also 65 and learn new things every day on here, do some reading and have fun with your 292.....Dave

27TRoadsterguy 07-10-2012 12:56 PM

OK looks like good product Joe, but I am not in the US, and I am looking for something local here in Niagara Falls.
Did find Permatex "Ultra Slick" Engine Assembly Lube, very sticky red stuff, no info on it. Contains some kind of environmentally hazardous material as it has the MSA symbol on the back of the 4 oz bottle. I suspect some kind of zinc compound. This one will require some research. I remember a thread mentioning this stuff, but did not think I would come across it.
Another one I found was Lucas "Engine Break-in Oil", which has a big label on the front informing the user, the product contains zinc, and that it would kill catalytic converters with continued use. Oil change required after 1000 miles. Label advised that product was good as an assembly lube.
the only moly disulfide lubricant I found was as a high pressre grease in a tube, and I don't think thats something I would use in an engine as an assembly lubricant.
Any comments?

S10 Racer 07-10-2012 01:19 PM

Break-in oil is different from assembly lube, you need both. I use Valvoline VR-1 without any additives and have had no problems. I changed it after a few hours at the track. Joe Gibb & Brad Penn oils are a couple of well known suppliers of break in oil w/zinc. Just not sure if it's available where you are. Any conventional oil with a content of 1100ppm or more of zinc will work. DO NOT use a synthetic for break in.

F-BIRD'88 07-10-2012 02:13 PM

Use Molyslip E oil supplement in your oil.
Molyslip Canada Inc. :: Molybdenum Lubricants, Performance Lubricants, Copaslip Anti-Seize, EP2 Grease, Wear Reducing Lubricants, Oil Additive

This stuff contains both zinc and Moly. This is what I use for new/rebuilt engine run in.

then after the run in and on each oil change I add 1/2 a can the new oil change.
Thats plenty oil additive boost and cost effective.

You can buy this in Niagara Falls. CTC or Home Hardware.

The GM EOS oil additive is great stuff too. (Any GM dealer parts counter)

Home Hardware - molyslip

Do not use synthetic oil for the break in.

I've never been too keen on Lucas additives. I never use any other additves except the Moly Slip and GM EOS in my oil.

By the way synthetic oil is not any better at anti scuff than a dino oil.
The anti scuff is provided by the Zinc phosphorous additve and the Moly disulfide additves that are added to both dino oil and synthetic.

The advantage of synthetic oil is primarily temp/viscocity control and lubricity and service life extension , not anti scuff.

A pure synthetic motor oil has been found to cause issues with fat tappet cam/lifter rotation. (Because it is too slippery)

I would not run a 100% synthetic in that motor. And surely not for the break in.

I do not drain out the oil after the initial run in. Leave it in and let it and the GM EOS and Moly Slip additives do their stuff for 1000 miles.
It makes no sense to drain the oil right away. Just change the oil filter.

Takes more than 1/2 an hour to fully break in a motor. You are just dumping your money down the drain.

F-BIRD'88 07-10-2012 02:44 PM

Collee's Automotive or Jack Dow may stock the Moly Slip too.

27TRoadsterguy 07-10-2012 04:41 PM

break in oil
 
OK and thanks to all..... so now that I am enlightened about not using synthetics, when I am putting the cam and lifters in, what do I use on the cam bearings at assembly, and the lifter faces(cam contact point) as I am installing these items.

Dave.... that 292 is a neat engine. It has a fantastic exhaust note at 6000 rpm. I have found a set of +0.125" pistons, the next evolution, 320 cid. :evil:

FBird, looking at the Moly line up, my choice would be AS65 or AS40 on the cam lobes, and lifter cups and faces, and MolyE on the cam bearings and in the initial oil fill. Many thanks...

Now I need to find the products....CTC, Automotive Warehouse, and Parts Source have NO Moly products at all, the only moly product at McLeod Rd CTC AND Part Source was CTC's own brand of moly hp grease, if they had any of the Moly products, they are well hidden and not in their computers.
I didn't try Jack Dow, I didn't think to go there which is not unusual, Jack was a friend of mine for over 40 years. He was parts manager at a GM dealership called Motorville when got me the long block Camaro Z28 302 CID engine and big block Corvette side pipes that i converted my 65 MGB into a Cobra killer with. Took him for a ride in it from which he emerged a changed man. Thats another story.......but quite truthfully I find it difficult to go to Jacks store, too many memories, he was a great guy. I still miss him.:( I will try there tomorrow.

My thanks to all for the great info.....thats why I come here...to learn and do it right the first time.

S10 Racer 07-10-2012 05:15 PM

Are you buying a cam/lifter kit from a local parts store or ordering online from someone like Jegs or Summit? If ordering online, they will have the right assembly lube to use on the lobes & lifters. If you can't find the moly, the Permatex "Ultra Slick" Engine Assembly Lube will work fine. In the older days we use to use Lubriplate.

cobalt327 07-10-2012 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 27TRoadsterguy (Post 1572494)
I am replacing the cam/lifters in my Chev 292 inline 6. I went to a thread on the forum 2004 date about oil and break-in lubes for engines. The thread centered around the zinc content (none) in the new oils. I cannot find moly in any of the auto stores here. I found 2 GM (additives) one is a Cam/lifter break in lube the other is a new engine additive that can be added to the crankcase for break in purposes. Now, my question, since the lack of zinc is something we are stuck with, I wonder about using Lucas Synthetic oil supplement (since I use mobil 1 in the crankcase) for a cam /lifter pre lube. I do all the good stuff, with engine pre-lube, using a dummy distributor shaft on a drill to fill all the journals and pressurize the oil system.

The attribute of the good synthetic oils is anti-scuff, which why I use it in all my engines with good result. This is the first time that I have built an engine, since my teen age days of hot rodding(i am 65 now) so my knowledge may not be quite up to date. The last engine I built was in 1969, a hot Chev 409, which served me well for 20 years.

Thanks to all.....

Here is a page that may help you.

Good luck.

F-BIRD'88 07-10-2012 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 27TRoadsterguy (Post 1572662)
OK and thanks to all..... so now that I am enlightened about not using synthetics, when I am putting the cam and lifters in, what do I use on the cam bearings at assembly, and the lifter faces(cam contact point) as I am installing these items.

Dave.... that 292 is a neat engine. It has a fantastic exhaust note at 6000 rpm. I have found a set of +0.125" pistons, the next evolution, 320 cid. :evil:

FBird, looking at the Moly line up, my choice would be AS65 or AS40 on the cam lobes, and lifter cups and faces, and MolyE on the cam bearings and in the initial oil fill. Many thanks...

Now I need to find the products....CTC, Automotive Warehouse, and Parts Source have NO Moly products at all, the only moly product at McLeod Rd CTC AND Part Source was CTC's own brand of moly hp grease, if they had any of the Moly products, they are well hidden and not in their computers.
I didn't try Jack Dow, I didn't think to go there which is not unusual, Jack was a friend of mine for over 40 years. He was parts manager at a GM dealership called Motorville when got me the long block Camaro Z28 302 CID engine and big block Corvette side pipes that i converted my 65 MGB into a Cobra killer with. Took him for a ride in it from which he emerged a changed man. Thats another story.......but quite truthfully I find it difficult to go to Jacks store, too many memories, he was a great guy. I still miss him.:( I will try there tomorrow.

My thanks to all for the great info.....thats why I come here...to learn and do it right the first time.

Ya Jack was a real character for sure and a good guy. Always had a joke, pun or funny story to share with his customers.
Over the years I spent a ton of money there and always received exceptional good friendly service.

Rob Dow runs the store now. Still great service, not so dry, corny humor LOL..


If neither local Home hardware (call them) does not stock the Moly Slip E , call Rob @ Jack Dows. He will get it for you.

Engine assembly lube :: mix up some GM EOS with normal engine oil to use as a parts assembly lube on a bearings, rockers etc. Stick it in a oil can.

The moly paste cam lube only goes on the cam lobes them selves.
a small amount cam be put on the base of each lifter. Do not get it on the sides of the lifters. DO not get it all over the place.
Just dab some Moly paste on the lifter foot, dunk the other end of the lifter in oil and install.
Do not try to fill up the lifters with oil.

A mix of GM EOS and motor oil is all you need to use as a general assembly lube.

When you re done just dump the left over EOS and oil in the oil pan along with the can of Moly Slip. E... I like to mix up the can of moly slip in some oil first then dump it in. Use a good Dino oil like Rotella T 15w-40


Do not use a Fram oil filter or a CTC oil filter. I use AC delco filters bought from a GM dealer parts dept. Same place you get the EOS from.

If after you want to run synthetic I would use a 50-50 blend with Dino oil like Rotella and a ZDDP additive if not using a oil with lots of Zinc.
Most all of the off the shelf Motor oils now have reduced Zinc.
Amsoil has a good Syn oil for older cars with hi perf flat tappet cams
Generous amount of Zinc additive.
Rob can get you that too.
Again the only spot that needs the moly disulfide paste (cam lube) is the cam lobes and lifter feet.
CTC used to sell it in big butter dishes.

EP Moly grease is not the same thing as Moly Disulfide Paste Moly Slip brand or isky Rev lube. Do not use grease when assembling a motor at all. "grease" is for wheel bearings and ball joints and U joints.

The Moly Slip E oil supplement is not a engine assembly lube. You just dump it in with the motor oil.

Use a 50-50 mix brew of normal motor oil and GM EOS for engine assembly lube. Thats all you need.

Does this 292 six motor have a solid lifter cam ??

27TRoadsterguy 07-11-2012 01:46 PM

No, unfortnately its hydraulic lifters, I want to go that way, with a street/strip cam and solid lifters, but I think building a flathead would have been an easier task. I will tell you something, I went to Jack dow's and came out empty handed, Rob doesn't carry Moly products at all, and he said he can't get it. I went to the GM dealer down the street and got a pint of EOS, but they don't stock the cam and lifter pre-lube stuff any more. They can get it but I would have to buy a case, and thats not gonna happen. I am stuck with no material for the lifter faces, except the Permetex Ultra Slick, so that's how my day has gone. One nice thing about being retired.... I have lots of time to chase down parts and materials for an antique engine thats almost as old as I am...LOL

RippinRon 07-11-2012 01:59 PM

I've picked up some Comp Cams break in lube at my local Napa in Ontario. I'm not sure if they all carry it or not.

cobalt327 07-11-2012 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 27TRoadsterguy (Post 1572955)
No, unfortnately its hydraulic lifters, I want to go that way, with a street/strip cam and solid lifters, but I think building a flathead would have been an easier task. I will tell you something, I went to Jack dow's and came out empty handed, Rob doesn't carry Moly products at all, and he said he can't get it. I went to the GM dealer down the street and got a pint of EOS, but they don't stock the cam and lifter pre-lube stuff any more. They can get it but I would have to buy a case, and thats not gonna happen. I am stuck with no material for the lifter faces, except the Permetex Ultra Slick, so that's how my day has gone. One nice thing about being retired.... I have lots of time to chase down parts and materials for an antique engine thats almost as old as I am...LOL

I may have a work-around for you if you can't get a hold of cam break in lube.

B&S (yeah, the mower motor people) sells a moly lube that looks just like the cam lube we all know and love. Dark grey/black, stains the hands, the whole deal. Most any mower shop should carry it and IIRC I've even seen it at either Home Depot or Lowes (check online or call for it first).

Now, cam break in lube is obviously preferred, but this will certainly be better than using white grease or something like that. Work it (or any cam break in lube, for that matter) into the metal- especially on the cam lobes. There's enough surface "porosity" from the parkerizing-type treatment that the lube needs to be rubbed onto/into the lobes, not just laid on the metal. It doesn't need to be slathered all over the place, just on the lobes and foot of the lifters- not on the bearing journals. Motor oil is all the bearings/journals need.

F-BIRD'88 07-11-2012 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 27TRoadsterguy (Post 1572955)
No, unfortnately its hydraulic lifters, I want to go that way, with a street/strip cam and solid lifters, but I think building a flathead would have been an easier task. I will tell you something, I went to Jack dow's and came out empty handed, Rob doesn't carry Moly products at all, and he said he can't get it. I went to the GM dealer down the street and got a pint of EOS, but they don't stock the cam and lifter pre-lube stuff any more. They can get it but I would have to buy a case, and thats not gonna happen. I am stuck with no material for the lifter faces, except the Permetex Ultra Slick, so that's how my day has gone. One nice thing about being retired.... I have lots of time to chase down parts and materials for an antique engine thats almost as old as I am...LOL

call the Home hardware store in Stamford Plaza or on McLeod rd. The Molyslip products are listed on their online site. They should have it.
Fallsway Auto Supply on Desson. Any of the many local automotive machine shops will have it or can get it next day.

http://www.kcautoparts.com/


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