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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2013, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 89Blackbird View Post
I'm building my first engine and am trying to figure out which heads to use there is a guy in my local area selling a set of camel humps with 2.02/1.60 valves complete port & polished and have screw in studs. Would these be good heads to get me close to my goal of 400hp or should I look around for a set of vortecs? Would stock vortecs still be better than these?
How much does he want for the Fuelie heads? If they're OEM 2.02's they'd be worth something to the number's Camaro guys. If someone put the big valves in them they probably have hardened seats. But do get them checked before you buy.

If they pass the crack test they would be able to meet your HP goals. As far as the Vortec being better? I'm not convinced. I see cars in the staging lanes with vortec's and I see the cars running 14's and high 13 once in a while. Most of the people I know end up taking the vortec's off and putting on a real head.

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Old 02-06-2013, 10:15 AM
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The guy is selling them for $200 and they have been worked to 2.02's. We are building the engine and then finding a car to put it in which will be for the local show n shines and weekend track days and smoking all my turbo import buddies with a real car lol. I will switch to aftermarket eventually but just need decent heads right now. I'm leaning more towards the fuelies now that I know there are custom accessory brackets out there.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2013, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 89Blackbird View Post
The guy is selling them for $200 and they have been worked to 2.02's. We are building the engine and then finding a car to put it in which will be for the local show n shines and weekend track days and smoking all my turbo import buddies with a real car lol. I will switch to aftermarket eventually but just need decent heads right now. I'm leaning more towards the fuelies now that I know there are custom accessory brackets out there.
200 seems like a fair price.Still get them checked before you buy them. You gonna run power steering?
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:58 PM
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Yes I would
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:31 PM
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You could get the power steering bracket that bolts to the front header bolt. Then get ya a low mount for your alternator mount that bolts to the lower bolt holes on the block and the problem is solved.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2013, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by prostreet6t9 View Post
How much does he want for the Fuelie heads? If they're OEM 2.02's they'd be worth something to the number's Camaro guys. If someone put the big valves in them they probably have hardened seats. But do get them checked before you buy.

If they pass the crack test they would be able to meet your HP goals. As far as the Vortec being better? I'm not convinced. I see cars in the staging lanes with vortec's and I see the cars running 14's and high 13 once in a while. Most of the people I know end up taking the vortec's off and putting on a real head.
Great post And when they look and see the old double humps and your time just smile
Jester
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2013, 09:28 PM
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Great post And when they look and see the old double humps and your time just smile
Jester
If you want double humps use casting #186 last 3 numbers they have acc bolt holes they came on 69-70 z several othersnova chevelle, 461 -462 and 292 do not have holes ,they are offered with 202/160 also 194/150 check.i have several sets i use for restoration projects .you can buy a NEW set of aluminum heads for about same price as it will take to Correctly build the humps,probably make more power ,lighter weight you will need longer head bolts with aftermarket alum. as for the Rebuilt heads for $200 RUN FOREST RUN.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2013, 09:44 PM
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If you want double humps use casting #186 last 3 numbers they have acc bolt holes they came on 69-70 z several othersnova chevelle, 461 -462 and 292 do not have holes ,they are offered with 202/160 also 194/150 check.i have several sets i use for restoration projects .you can buy a NEW set of aluminum heads for about same price as it will take to Correctly build the humps,probably make more power ,lighter weight you will need longer head bolts with aftermarket alum. as for the Rebuilt heads for $200 RUN FOREST RUN.

In addition to that install screw in studs if not done already!

Jesterr
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 10:46 AM
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Vortech heads for the most part are not that great. There is one vortech casting that beats the 461 or 461X heads. And one aftermarket vortech casting that is better. all the others are pretty bad. If you dont have that one then use the 461's.

Ported for ported the 461's are better. Stock they are good for 350-400 hp just like the good vortechs.

But in your case i have a set of 461X heads on the orginal 327 in my garage. I went and purchased procomps for 600 bucks. In your case i would suggest you sell the 461's to a fool on ebay and buy aftermarket aluminum heads. The 461 go for more bucks than some of the cheap aluminum heads so why not get a good set.

If you are dead set on vortech get the good ones from the gm performance catalog. Not the ones on ebay for 50 bucks they will suck just as bad as any stock head. The best vortechs for the street are pretty good. they do make more power than the stock 461 but only a few ponies nothing your going to miss. if the 461's are bolt on ready then run them if not go with good heads not ok or pretty good or they worked on my boat. Good heads will make the best bang for the buck not free or cheap ones.

461 X heads came int he 300 hp 327 back in the day. They do work ignore the vortech trap. Also vortechs dont have the same bolt pattern for the manifold as older chevy heads do.

This has been gone over several times on this forum. Here are the correct vortech casting numbers.
5.7 Vortec Casting #s Myth 062 & 906

Last edited by hcompton; 02-07-2013 at 11:06 AM.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 11:01 AM
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I forgot to mention the 292 castings most are angle plug ,and the 461x and 462xx heads were called service heads .sold across counter at chevy dealers to racers at the time they were the best you could get .461 come on 327 with 275 ,300 325.330.350 and 365 hp engines the 186 came on 302 z and lt1 350 , either woul;d be a good choice for street use or restoration.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 11:29 AM
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I forgot to mention the 292 castings most are angle plug ,and the 461x and 462xx heads were called service heads .sold across counter at chevy dealers to racers at the time they were the best you could get .461 come on 327 with 275 ,300 325.330.350 and 365 hp engines the 186 came on 302 z and lt1 350 , either woul;d be a good choice for street use or restoration.
X heads are not service heads they are large port versions of the same head. Chevy has a few X heads. just means the runners a little bigger. Usally 10 cc bigger. They did come factory.

The X in located on the underside of the head on the bottom of the intake runner. cant be sean while the head is on the car.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 11:58 AM
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The X does not denote a larger intake runner. That is a popular wives tale. The X only means there was a change (in the mold) from original casting design. This could be most anything. From xtra thickness in a mounting boss/spring pocket to coolant passage mods.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by hcompton View Post
Vortech heads for the most part are not that great. There is one vortech casting that beats the 461 or 461X heads. And one aftermarket vortech casting that is better. all the others are pretty bad. If you dont have that one then use the 461's.

Ported for ported the 461's are better. Stock they are good for 350-400 hp just like the good vortechs.

But in your case i have a set of 461X heads on the orginal 327 in my garage. I went and purchased procomps for 600 bucks. In your case i would suggest you sell the 461's to a fool on ebay and buy aftermarket aluminum heads. The 461 go for more bucks than some of the cheap aluminum heads so why not get a good set.

If you are dead set on vortech get the good ones from the gm performance catalog. Not the ones on ebay for 50 bucks they will suck just as bad as any stock head. The best vortechs for the street are pretty good. they do make more power than the stock 461 but only a few ponies nothing your going to miss. if the 461's are bolt on ready then run them if not go with good heads not ok or pretty good or they worked on my boat. Good heads will make the best bang for the buck not free or cheap ones.

461 X heads came int he 300 hp 327 back in the day. They do work ignore the vortech trap. Also vortechs dont have the same bolt pattern for the manifold as older chevy heads do.

This has been gone over several times on this forum. Here are the correct vortech casting numbers.
5.7 Vortec Casting #s Myth 062 & 906
I had thought the whole "only one good Vortec head" bs had been laid to rest a LONG time ago. For those who don't know, some wag at CHP magazine (IIRC) started this myth shortly after the Vortec heads came out (and before much was actually known about them, presumably). This myth has been rebuked many times by dyno and flow bench tests, track testing, etc. etc. but still surfaces every so often.

Here are the FACTS: The ONLY significant difference in c/n 906 and 062 L31 production Vortec heads is the 906 head MIGHT have a hardened exhaust seat insert as opposed to an induction hardened seat. The insert MAY cause there to be a slight lip where the insert and head meet. And there might be a single angle seat instead of the three angle seat used on the induction hardened seats (this has to be verified). These differences certainly do NOT make the 906 w/insert a "bad" or "poor flowing" head. In fact, there are boat builders who prefer the insert seat heads.

If the Vortec head as used on production vehicles has a problem, it's cracking- NOT flow. Some cracking isn't because of the heads per se; they cracked because of other shortcomings of the engine.

IMO anyone who cannot get better performance from a Vortec head than a fuelie head- all else being equal- needs to work on their engine building skills.

Vortec heads

Last edited by cobalt327; 02-07-2013 at 12:21 PM.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 01:58 PM
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I suppose I should also say the exhaust to intake flow ratio is not good. That's why unported Vortecs use a split pattern cam. Basic Vortec 101 stuff.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2013, 05:16 PM
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Sorry LOL wrong thread

Jester
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