Camel hump heads vs vortec heads - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2013, 01:26 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 12,996
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 768
Thanked 1,027 Times in 859 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 64 IMP SS View Post
i would port/polish
Please stop saying this, it's a dead giveaway that you have no idea what you're talking about. It's left over from the 60's and does not apply today. Everybody and his brother had a set of "ported and polished" heads back in the day when I was a kid.
1. If you don't have decades of experience porting heads or a PhD in Fluid Dynamics, you should not be considering grinding in the ports....period. Current thinking leaves the intake ports as rough as a lady's metal fingernail file, with the exhaust ports polished to a mirror finish.
2. Grinding on L31 heads will not improve flow. They are optimum as-cast and are the best production cast iron heads that GM ever produced. Leave them alone. If you need more flow than the L31's can provide, go to an aftermarket head.
3. L31's are thinwall castings. Grinding in the ports or installing larger valve diameters requires cutting out material that can contribute to cracking. If you feel you need more flow or larger valves, go to an aftermarket head.
4. You cannot tell what motor you have by looking at or measuring the harmonic damper. What are the chances that a 40 year old motor has not had the damper changed over its lifetime?????????????? Look at the block deck on the passenger side just in front of where the cylinder head ends. There will be a stamped alpha/number there if the block has not been decked in the past. Post the alpha/number here.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to techinspector1 For This Useful Post:
1Gary (03-31-2013)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2013, 01:47 PM
1Gary's Avatar
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: 383 dyno sym
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Roch,NY
Age: 67
Posts: 1,538
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 201
Thanked 156 Times in 142 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Please stop saying this, it's a dead giveaway that you have no idea what you're talking about. It's left over from the 60's and does not apply today. Everybody and his brother had a set of "ported and polished" heads back in the day when I was a kid.
1. If you don't have decades of experience porting heads or a PhD in Fluid Dynamics, you should not be considering grinding in the ports....period. Current thinking leaves the intake ports as rough as a lady's metal fingernail file, with the exhaust ports polished to a mirror finish.
2. Grinding on L31 heads will not improve flow. They are optimum as-cast and are the best production cast iron heads that GM ever produced. Leave them alone. If you need more flow than the L31's can provide, go to an aftermarket head.
3. L31's are thinwall castings. Grinding in the ports or installing larger valve diameters requires cutting out material that can contribute to cracking. If you feel you need more flow or larger valves, go to an aftermarket head.
4. You cannot tell what motor you have by looking at or measuring the harmonic damper. What are the chances that a 40 year old motor has not had the damper changed over its lifetime?????????????? Look at the block deck on the passenger side just in front of where the cylinder head ends. There will be a stamped alpha/number there if the block has not been decked in the past. Post the alpha/number here.
Times 2 Richard.Good to see ya.Gary
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2013, 01:58 PM
vinniekq2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BC,Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 8,119
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 324
Thanked 785 Times in 751 Posts
welcome back Tech

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
It depends on the application,and if you plan to port the heads?stock,the vortec heads flow more than camels. how many dollars are you willing to spend,how much power do you need/want,,,,?Look at the balancer,the 327 has a slightly smaller balancer(usually) than a 350.
If it was me,I would use better heads than either of your choices.
camels are old
vortecs need machine work to use a decent cam
I hope your shot was not at me?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2013, 02:07 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 12,996
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 768
Thanked 1,027 Times in 859 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
I hope your shot was not at me?
I was not implying that your info was incorrect Vinnie, only that whatever damper is on the motor now, may not be the original damper, so you cannot definitively identify a motor by the damper, same as you cannot definitively identify a motor by the heads or by the intake manifold unless you were the fellow who bought the motor originally from the manufacturer and you absolutely know for certain that nothing has been changed on it over the years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2013, 03:20 PM
vinniekq2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BC,Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 8,119
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 324
Thanked 785 Times in 751 Posts
re tech

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
If there is a lip,then its probably a large journal 327,if the balancer is equally thick,both rings then its likely a 350.of course its possible the balancer was replaced.
400 true hp is not difficult,needs precision assembley and machine work,clean heads,standard performer rpm/750 cfm/1 5/8 long tube headers,decent and quality cam.
entry level after market heads are a g note or a little less.
vortec heads can support 400 hp with machined clearance for a .450 plus lift cam and exhaust porting.

are you going to use a roller cam?
I also mentioned,"if the balancer was replaced"
Its just a quick check for a guess.I had a 305 balancer on a 350 for a week because when I was at S.I.R. I had a failure and that 305 balancer was on an engine in the field and I needed it for the day.Funny thing was that was the first time I won the first place trophy of the day and it was a day full of luck.ran under dial,other guy red lit,ran way over dial,other guy went under,cut a perfect light against track champion,and the balancer change between rounds,,
funny thing was first place paid $26.บบ,circa 1979-81?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2013, 03:48 PM
gearheadslife's Avatar
MentalMuffinMan
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,306
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 123
Thanked 303 Times in 281 Posts
run the vortecs, don't touch the ports.. maybe litely on the exhaust side like tech said..
use the springs /cams listed and you'll be fine..

400hp is do able but that be spot on air/fuel and timing curve..
so figure real world 350-360hp..

just an FYI you can get new vortecs for 340 each from g.m. might want to think about that before you buy used for 150 then a valve job/seals/etc..
yes you'll still be changing the spings out.. but it'll be new heads with about the same cash as the used ones when it's all said and done..

GM Performance Parts - 12558060 - GM Performance Parts Small Block Chevy Cast Iron Vortec Cylinder Head - Complete

my bad 299.00 each
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2013, 05:10 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 12,996
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 768
Thanked 1,027 Times in 859 Posts
Or pay another 10 bucks each if you'd rather buy from an authorized Chevy dealer.....
https://sdparts.com/details/gm-perfo...parts/12558060
There are tons of cams available that will make good power at or under 0.450" valve lift.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2013, 05:20 PM
gearheadslife's Avatar
MentalMuffinMan
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,306
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 123
Thanked 303 Times in 281 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Or pay another 10 bucks each if you'd rather buy from an authorized Chevy dealer.....
https://sdparts.com/details/gm-perfo...parts/12558060
There are tons of cams available that will make good power at or under 0.450" valve lift.

pace is a chevy store??
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2013, 05:27 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 12,996
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 768
Thanked 1,027 Times in 859 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
pace is a chevy store??
Scoggin-Dickey is a Chevy dealership. Not sure, but I think Pace is an independent business not associated with GM. Doesn't make any difference, I was just making the point that Scoggin-Dickey shows 0.450" valve lift capability for another 10 bucks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2013, 05:39 PM
engineczar's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Flowbench nirvana
Age: 52
Posts: 1,657
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts
Pace is also a Chevrolet dealership. Either way they're both reputable operations.
__________________
BSE Racing Engines
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2013, 08:29 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 10
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
List the exact parts in your opinion to make 400 plus HP using vortec heads???
quote head flow intake and exhaust
cam that will work with that combo,,,fuel management? and header and exhaust specs???
Not a problem, Mr. Know-it-all. Small block with flattop pistons, 9.4 compression. Vortec heads. 1.6 roller tip rockers . Comp Cams 268 cam 224/230 degrees at 0.050-inch tappet lift and 0.477-/0.480-inch valve lift with 110-degree lobe separation angle. Edelbrock RPM intake. Holley 750 double pumper. Headers of whatever style fit your chassis.

408 HP, 430 TQ Use said beehive springs to use cam with more lift to get even more power.

BTW, TI is right. Don't touch the Vortecs with any "port and polish"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2013, 02:23 AM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 12,996
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 768
Thanked 1,027 Times in 859 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineczar View Post
Pace is also a Chevrolet dealership. Either way they're both reputable operations.
Thank you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2013, 06:20 AM
Faith - Respect - Trust
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ontario
Age: 58
Posts: 3,508
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 192
Thanked 638 Times in 572 Posts
Glad to see your back posting again from your hiatus Richard...always enjoy reading and learning from your posts.

Ray
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2013, 06:26 AM
Faith - Respect - Trust
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ontario
Age: 58
Posts: 3,508
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 192
Thanked 638 Times in 572 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
I also mentioned,"if the balancer was replaced"
Its just a quick check for a guess.I had a 305 balancer on a 350 for a week because when I was at S.I.R. I had a failure and that 305 balancer was on an engine in the field and I needed it for the day.Funny thing was that was the first time I won the first place trophy of the day and it was a day full of luck.ran under dial,other guy red lit,ran way over dial,other guy went under,cut a perfect light against track champion,and the balancer change between rounds,,
funny thing was first place paid $26.บบ,circa 1979-81?
Vinnie, the S.I.R.? Are you talking about the track just outside Saskatoon?

Ray
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2013, 06:41 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 74
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 10
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I enjoy my 461 double hump heads. They have been tinkered with a little. Studded, guide plates, the small stuff. Not sure if the springs are the stock style springs. Not trying to steal the thread, but how much are these holding me back compared to the other heads in question?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help with camel hump heads speedball Hotrodding Basics 12 09-27-2011 02:41 PM
camel hump heads yakimaracer01 Engine 1 07-06-2009 02:15 PM
Camel hump heads 59ELCAMINO Engine 6 06-19-2006 01:55 AM
camel hump heads 70 nova Engine 2 08-20-2003 07:57 PM
camel hump heads rideinmy66 Engine 6 08-04-2003 05:24 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.