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Old 03-30-2013, 11:53 AM
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Camel hump heads vs vortec heads

Hello to all i got a question for you guys, i want to change the heads on my 1972 327 or its a 350 i got to pull pan but havent got that far yet to verify the motor,if you had a choice to go camel hump heads or vortec what would you pick and why?

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Old 03-30-2013, 12:12 PM
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It depends on the application,and if you plan to port the heads?stock,the vortec heads flow more than camels. how many dollars are you willing to spend,how much power do you need/want,,,,?Look at the balancer,the 327 has a slightly smaller balancer(usually) than a 350.
If it was me,I would use better heads than either of your choices.
camels are old
vortecs need machine work to use a decent cam
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:27 PM
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i can get either set for 150 i was going to port and polish them if i got eith or but you mention better heads,what are some better heads out there???? i cant afford no 2-3000 heads,this motor i want to be more of a cruiser/street style, heres a pic of the balancer can you tell if its a 327 or 350
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:42 PM
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you did not say how much power you need?
the balancer; the outer ring,is it thick or thin?just reach behind the balancer and feel if its a thin outer ring or if the outer ring is flush with the inner ring.
buying heads for 150,spending 150-250 to freshen them and or make them compatible with unleaded gas,and porting them,,,,might be better to buy either aluminum or dart cast iron heads,,,most after market heads flow 230 CFM or more,which is enough to build a 450 hp engine.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:50 PM
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getting 400hp would be nice but havent had a set hp in mind just wanted to really update the motor on a budget,heads,intake/carb cam lifters and header is on the list to do, sso on the balancer if i reach behind it and it feels smooth and if it feels like its got a bump what would either or tell me witch is witch?
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:01 PM
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If there is a lip,then its probably a large journal 327,if the balancer is equally thick,both rings then its likely a 350.of course its possible the balancer was replaced.
400 true hp is not difficult,needs precision assembley and machine work,clean heads,standard performer rpm/750 cfm/1 5/8 long tube headers,decent and quality cam.
entry level after market heads are a g note or a little less.
vortec heads can support 400 hp with machined clearance for a .450 plus lift cam and exhaust porting.

are you going to use a roller cam?
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:04 PM
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i havent looked but im pretty sure i got flat tops but i do want rollers from what i heard was better,im still learning myself on all this
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:59 PM
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Camel hump heads vs vortec heads

Look behind the alternator on the pad in front of the head for ID. numbers. Post them here because they will have to be decoded. Check out all the info on these heads. These cast iron heads are capable of making over 500 hp. Dart Iron Eagle Platinum Cylinder Heads 10321111P - SummitRacing.com.

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Old 03-30-2013, 09:43 PM
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400 HP is achievable blindfolded with Vortecs. Make sure they're not cracked, buy some Comp Cams beehive springs, and you don't have to do any machine work at all. You will need self aligning rockers and a vortec intake. Thinking you have to machine Vortecs to handle lift over .470 is 8 year old information.

OP, did you know that GM considers the Vortec to be their best head combustion chamber design ever? Not only do they flow better but you also get a modern combustion chamber which is so vastly superior to camel humps' bathtub shaped chamber.
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdminter59 View Post
Look behind the alternator on the pad in front of the head for ID. numbers. Post them here because they will have to be decoded. Check out all the info on these heads. These cast iron heads are capable of making over 500 hp. Dart Iron Eagle Platinum Cylinder Heads 10321111P - SummitRacing.com.
iv already had,the sides says its a 327 or 350 1972 c-20&30,many sites say either 327 or 350 for some reason, those look like nice heads thanks for the link im going to look into them thanks
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Buster View Post
400 HP is achievable blindfolded with Vortecs. Make sure they're not cracked, buy some Comp Cams beehive springs, and you don't have to do any machine work at all. You will need self aligning rockers and a vortec intake. Thinking you have to machine Vortecs to handle lift over .470 is 8 year old information.

OP, did you know that GM considers the Vortec to be their best head combustion chamber design ever? Not only do they flow better but you also get a modern combustion chamber which is so vastly superior to camel humps' bathtub shaped chamber.
my good friend swears by these vortec heads, like i said if i did get them i would port/polish,get a good edelbrock vortec intake and holly carb,still wondering on a good cam, should i go double rolling timming chain as well?
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:41 AM
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How to ID your engine. Use the casting number, date code and suffix. The damper tells you nada.

Info on Vortec heads here. They're better flowing than a fuelie head but have their own idiosyncrasies like intake manifold, rockers, valve covers that are different than what you now have.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:49 AM
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400 hp

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Buster View Post
400 HP is achievable blindfolded with Vortecs. Make sure they're not cracked, buy some Comp Cams beehive springs, and you don't have to do any machine work at all. You will need self aligning rockers and a vortec intake. Thinking you have to machine Vortecs to handle lift over .470 is 8 year old information.

OP, did you know that GM considers the Vortec to be their best head combustion chamber design ever? Not only do they flow better but you also get a modern combustion chamber which is so vastly superior to camel humps' bathtub shaped chamber.
List the exact parts in your opinion to make 400 plus HP using vortec heads???
quote head flow intake and exhaust
cam that will work with that combo,,,fuel management? and header and exhaust specs???
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:46 AM
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L31 heads
stock self centering rockers
CompCams 26915 or 26918 or PAC 1218 or stock 2002-2004 LS6 Beehive springs(all of these are beehives)
CompCams 787-16 non Gen-3 retainers(the GEN 1E Vortec valves have a different diameter than the GEN3/4 engines valves 787-16)
stock locks
So far this setup is good for 0.550" of lift on stock Vortecs

Compcams and LS6 Beehive info
Installing Beehive Style Valve Springs on Chevy

Matched set of LS9 springs from Lingenfelter for $69, 787-16 comp cams retainers for over 0.530" lift
GM LS9 Valve Springs Matched Sets - Lingenfelter Performance
As for a cam, the old school roller LT4 Hotcam is good for 400 crank hp on a Vortec 350, its easy on valvetrain, easily tuned, has great low rpm torque. But there are many more modern cams that will work as well.

Intake Performer RPM Vortec, or Performer RPM Vortec Airgap will do the trick.

Just remeber that Vortec L31 heads have 64cc chambers which actually measure slightly smaller, because of this the L31 engines use a -13cc dish piston.

The Vortec L31 heads are the highest flowing GEN 1/1E head ever installed in a production vehicle. This is well known and without debate.

Cliffs: Vortec 350 heads
787-16 retainers
LS6 or LS9, or Comp Beehive springs
stock locks
LT4 hotcam or similar
stock Vortec self centering rocker arms
RPM Vortec intake (or similar)
carb

Will easily net 400crank hp. There are many many ways to do this, but I would be here all day.

peace
Hog
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:48 AM
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Sorry for the 1/2 double post but I cant make changes to apost after 30 minutes has expired, so I reposted teh entire post plus my additions.

L31 heads
stock self centering rockers
CompCams 26915 or 26918 or PAC 1218 or stock 2002-2004 LS6 Beehive springs(all of these are beehives)
CompCams 787-16 non Gen-3 retainers(the GEN 1E Vortec valves have a different diameter than the GEN3/4 engines valves 787-16)
stock locks
So far this setup is good for 0.550" of lift on stock Vortecs

Compcams and LS6 Beehive info
Installing Beehive Style Valve Springs on Chevy

Matched set of LS9 springs from Lingenfelter for $69, 787-16 comp cams retainers for over 0.530" lift
GM LS9 Valve Springs Matched Sets - Lingenfelter Performance
As for a cam, the old school roller LT4 Hotcam is good for 400 crank hp on a Vortec 350, its easy on valvetrain, easily tuned, has great low rpm torque. But there are many more modern cams that will work as well.

Intake Performer RPM Vortec, or Performer RPM Vortec Airgap will do the trick.

Just remeber that Vortec L31 heads have 64cc chambers which actually measure slightly smaller, because of this the L31 engines use a -13cc dish piston.

The Vortec L31 heads are the highest flowing GEN 1/1E head ever installed in a production vehicle. This is well known and without debate.

Cliffs: Vortec 350 heads
-787-16 retainers
-LS6 or LS9, or Comp Beehive springs
-stock locks
-LT4 hotcam or similar
-stock Vortec self centering rocker arms
-RPM Vortec intake (or similar)
-880 block(you can get a brand new GM shortblock for $900- or complete longblock with roller cam/lifters for $1800, stock 4 bolt for $1900 from GM-this is rated at 255 sae net hp or about 310-320hp-the stock Vortec 350 cam has specs of 191║/196 -duration at 0.050" 0.412"/0.428" lift on a 111║LSA)
-carb

Here is a dyno graph of a stock Vortec 350 longblock, with a Ramjet Vortec intake manifold, CNP ignition and 0411 512kb PCM and LT4 hotcam(311 awhp@5500rpm/334 awtq)



And a pic of the same engine installed in an AWD S10



Will easily net 400 crank hp. There are many many ways to do this, but I would be here all day.

peace
Hog
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