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Old 06-05-2010, 03:49 AM
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A can of body filler worms.

Here's what some stray sanding uncovered today...less metal than I thought.



Now I need to get this right again and some input would really be appreciated. Looks like I have some sculpting ahead of me. I'm not an experienced metal worker and have mostly done minor fill repairs and paint.

Some info:

The trunk lid is double skinned and the only parts available are fiberglass copies in France .

I have a spare, kind of rusty lid in place now while I sort this mess out.
If I strip it to metal and de-skin to try to work the metal, can it be nicely welded back together (not by me)? That's my ideal situation but not in the budget right now. For now, I could use some tips on how to recreate the intricate filler extravaganza that used to be there...It's a little disheartening to find this now, after it took me so long to get the filler right on what was supposed to be an easy repair of some bad paint .

How the heck do I duplicate the correct shape?? Thanks.

Jeff

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Old 06-05-2010, 06:35 AM
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Never say I can't..Say I will figure this out..Go to metalmeet.com so you can learn to metal work and weld in a patch panel..that area is not all that big..and yes you can..

Sam
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I have tried most all of it and now do what is known to work..
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:09 AM
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you need to take a grinder to that so you can REALLY see whats there. You very well could grind an inch away from there and find only metal. You cannot possibly know whats there until you get the paint off of there. Is the filler cracked? If not, why are you digging it out?
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Old 06-05-2010, 02:24 PM
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I'm digging it out because I mistakenly sanded too far into that area and sanded off the top of that fluted edge.
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime
Never say I can't..Say I will figure this out..Go to metalmeet.com so you can learn to metal work and weld in a patch panel..that area is not all that big..and yes you can..

Sam
Sam,

So you're saying I should fabricate a patch panel which has been shaped to the necessary contours and weld it in?
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brother728
I'm digging it out because I mistakenly sanded too far into that area and sanded off the top of that fluted edge.
So why dont you fix what you did INSTEAD of digging this all out? What kind of car is it?
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Old 06-05-2010, 03:30 PM
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We're passed that now. Obviously I screwed up.
This is a 1972 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini Innocenti Mini Cooper 1300:

Quote:
In 1971, the Mini Cooper design was licensed in Italy by Innocenti and in 1973 to Spain by Authi (Automoviles de Turismo Hispano-Ingleses), which began to produce the Innocenti Mini Cooper 1300 and the Authi Mini Cooper 1300, respectively. The Cooper name disappeared from the UK Mini range at this time, as British Leyland (as it was by then) supposedly did not want to pay John Cooper royalties for the use of his name, so it was not seen again on Minis for nearly 20 years!
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Old 06-05-2010, 04:26 PM
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Pretty sure they made more than a couple of those cars. If you want to fix it, I'm sure it could be done, as suggested- completely strip it and start fresh though- but probably more efficient to replace it with another one. Minis are much more available in Canada than the States- I would try finding a replacement boot lid online from there if you can't find one in the city of angels. Good luck
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Old 06-05-2010, 04:35 PM
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http://www.allminiparts.com/products...7/115-685.html

There is a link for a new one if you can't find a used one-
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Old 06-05-2010, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourspeedwagon
Pretty sure they made more than a couple of those cars. If you want to fix it, I'm sure it could be done, as suggested- completely strip it and start fresh though- but probably more efficient to replace it with another one. Minis are much more available in Canada than the States- I would try finding a replacement boot lid online from there if you can't find one in the city of angels. Good luck
About 5 million worldwide, but the Italian ones made by Innocenti Lambretta had a different trunk lid with the number plate area as shown. There are plenty of new/used British trunk lids available which are incorrect for the car. As I said, the only replacement part is a fiberglass one in France which is out of my realm. Used trunk (boot) lids for the Italian Mini are very, very scarce and if found would bring a king's ransom. I think I covered replacing the part in my OP.

The British part:


The Italian part (mine):
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Old 06-05-2010, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourspeedwagon
http://www.allminiparts.com/products...7/115-685.html

There is a link for a new one if you can't find a used one-
Thanks. See previous post. Doing that would be like putting a Firebird hood on a Camaro. No.

I need to fix it and was hoping I'd find some tips on matching contours on intricate pieces...maybe some sort of template making suggestion. At present, this is my daily driver with my newer car in for engine work, so I need to get on the road.

Yes, the best thing to do would be to de-skin, strip to bare metal, repair the metal, weld the skin back on and fill. I don't weld yet so that's a lot of time and expense that's not in the cards at the moment. I'd like to get back to where I was, which obviously is a poorly repaired panel full of bondo. Until I do a full resto on the car, it will have to suffice and has for 5 years until a bad paint touch up by a body shop fell apart.

I was looking for assistance on how to reapply filler and shape it to match the other side of the number plate area. Any tips on that would be greatly appreciated. So far, I've ground down a larger area as suggested and there's good metal to the right..and a crinkled mess under filler to the left and above.
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Old 06-06-2010, 03:59 AM
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Filling is more difficult than actual metal work. But.... what you need to do is grind what is there until you have removed any that looks cracked or has rust under it.
i am guessing that lid was filled because the skin is doubled ?
Fillers today come in various grades and it pays to buy it from a auto paint supplier not the local home depot . I have forgotten more about using this stuff than I care to remember but basically make some templates from light cardboard to mimic the unbent side of the plate mount.
If there is a lot of panel detail,transfer the shapes of your templates to a peice of plastic cut from an icecream container. you can use these as shapers once you have spooned on the filler.
before the mud sets,you can roughly profile the shape.
I like to leave the stuff overnight to set as hard as possible. Check it in the morning to see how close the shape is with the templates.
The next step is a trade secret... Mix the filler as per normal,and you notice it is like soft butter but doesn't really work as good as you like. To counter act this and get a fine surface ,mix in small amounts of epoxy resin to thin the filler. It's an experimental process which takes a lot practice to learn so this explanation is as good as it gets. Again ,leave it to set hard. Forget the old story of cutting it down when it is half set,that just encourages the operator to remove too much and create more work. Using 40 sandpaper ,adjust the shape of your filler until it's almost right according to the templates.
then you can use 120 to get it smooth and finally 400-500 to finish it as smooth as possible. Blow a cost of primer followed by black guide coat .give it another light sand to make the faults stand out. Mix another batch of filler,hardner and epoxy liquid to spot fill any holes etc.
prime,check and fill until it's perfect.
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercmad63
The next step is a trade secret... Mix the filler as per normal,and you notice it is like soft butter but doesn't really work as good as you like. To counter act this and get a fine surface ,mix in small amounts of epoxy resin to thin the filler. It's an experimental process which takes a lot practice to learn so this explanation is as good as it gets.
There are body fillers that are thin enough that this isn't needed. And if "building" the contour, you will want a thicker filler otherwise it will be like trying to build with HOT BUTTER. It will be too runny and WILL NOT stay in place.
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:39 PM
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Merc-

Thanks for the reply. Before I saw your suggestions, I went with All Metal.
I ground down a larger area to bare metal and then built the filler up in layers and am cutting it down with a Dremel coarse sanding bit to get close and then will move to sandpaper on a small block. I didn't make a template but have taken measurements of the height/depth/angle of various sections and have drawn a guide with a Sharpie.

Trying to go slowly and carefully so I don't have to restart.

I'll post the results when I finish.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brother728
Trying to go slowly and carefully so I don't have to restart.I'll post the results when I finish.
That's the best thing you can do.
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