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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2004, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MARTINSR

And on that issue, restoration or custom paint is not a good example of paint problems or longevity. First off, you have all the time in the world to make it nice. Heck, you could have an orange peel like underseal or stucco and spend days polishing it to a perfect shine. The car is garaged 99% of it's life, etc. A high end collision shop doing dozens of $100,000 luxury cars a month, now there you will see where the rubber meets the road. It has to be done in a timely manner and you better produce something that looks great and isn't going to shink up in the coming months or you WILL be hearing from them.
This is why I feel ANY newbe can do a "show car" finish, I have seen it. It really isn't that hard. But you sure couldn't throw the poor guy into a bodyshop matching color and painting everyday or he would die a quick death.

There is no reason to beat this to death, you and I feel different on these subjects. [/B]
This is the most stupid thing ever heard.
It reminds me of a Doctor about 5 years ago that said

"having sex is the same as running two miles"

One doc wrote back and said we know for sure that doctor has either never had sex or ran two miles.

Buy what you wrote, guess you never sprayed a paint job!
JIM

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2004, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jimbo39
This is the most stupid thing ever heard.
It reminds me of a Doctor about 5 years ago that said

"having sex is the same as running two miles"

One doc wrote back and said we know for sure that doctor has either never had sex or ran two miles.

Buy what you wrote, guess you never sprayed a paint job!
JIM

Jimbo39,

You really should do a little more research before you come on here and slam a board member that has been in more body shops than anybody on this board, and probably painted just as many as anyone here.

Being a factory rep as MartinSr has been, his advice is invaluable.
I have dealt with factory reps for 40 years and most have forgotten more about painting and body work than the average painter will ever know. I can get more useful information from that kind of source than I can from a chemist that is always experimenting and telling people how wrong they are because they are not doing it the way he does. I'm not a engineer or a scientist, and I don't understand most of what they say.

Like martinSr says, most show paint jobs will not stand up to the everyday wear and tare of a p sheet paint job.

Troy

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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2004, 09:43 AM
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Jim, I have sprayed MANY show winning cars, I mean REAL show cars with the frames cut and buffed where I Mirror Glazed the FLOOR. Every square inch of orange peel removed from door jambs to fire wall.

I have also worked day in and day out in collision repair matching color and painting five to ten and sometimes many more jobs a day.

I have also had the opportunity to see hundreds upon hundreds of painters in action. From two stall restoration shops to a shop doing a million dollars of business with seven spray booths and a computer to order parts or email the production manager at every body techs station.

I have been in the street rod and custom scene since I was BORN. My God fathers son lived two doors from me when I was a kid and I grew up watching him and his buddys build hot rods (before they were called "street rods" a name coined in the seventies). He gave me my first job color sanding lacquer jobs (as well as cleaning the place ) when I was 17 years old.

I have seen cars loaded on the trailer only a few hours after being painted to go to a show. I have been at the show on "set up day" seeing cars being "prepped" to look as best they can being they were painted and buffed the night before and are now dieing back.

With all the exposer to BOTH ends of the spectrum I can honestly say what I did. It sounds goofy, I know it does. But you see, I have seen MANY custom and street rods painted by guys who simply where not good painters. They knew NOTHING about the products. They had never taken the time to go to a tech school and get educated on the subject. They just mixed and matched and thought they were "artists". They were not very good, period. They could however spend all the time they wanted on the customers dime (working "T&M" in the typical restoration shop) repairing the mistakes, using too much material (again on the customers dime) only to have a substandard job they SELL as a custom paint job.This paint would fail in short term if it weren't for the fact the car will hardly ever see the light of day being it is trailer queen.

I have seen HUGE names in the business winners of the "Builder of the year" and inductees in the hall of fames of places like Darryl Starbirds Click here museum and the 55 year old (very prestigious, I had a car in the main arena when I was 20!) Oakland Roadster show (now called the "Grand National Roadster show")Click here at work. Seen there cars during construction, examined their work with a fine tooth comb, believe me, they are nothing special in large. I had a buddy who had a 50 Merc custom in his shop and he was spotting in the NEW paint job that was done by a HUGE name (at least on the west coast). Not only had this "legendary" painter/car builder not applied the candy nice and even (as you stood there looking at the car it was very nice, just don't bend over any and look under the wheel wells or rockers!) under the edges there was not only thin candy but NO base and sometimes even NO primer!! My buddy asked the owner why he would pay the guy with work like that. His answer was "that is what you have to put up with have him paint your car" ?????? I am not saying these guys are hacks or anything like that (well some are). What I am saying is if you were to take one of them and throw them in a collision shop they wouldn't last a day.

Now, I am NOT just talking about the issue of time. I am talking about longevity. When you paint an $80,000 Mercedes that gets out in the sun everyday you WILL Be seeing this car if it shrinks up or something like that. After your typical custom shop (including mine ) has your rod for a year or two you don't ever want to bring it back!!

As far as how good this work has to be on a $100,000 Mercedes or even $65,000 Cad CTSV like I just did the other day. People expect PERFECTION. Even more so than the any rod I have ever done. It's strange, the rod owner who is paying you twenty or thrirty thousand dollars for a paint job won't be as anal as one of these computer company executives with his Lexus LS430! I have seen, I know you won't believe this, but I have see a woman spend over an hour in the parking lot with a MAGNIFYING GLASS looking over her car before she drove off! I have seen a guy spend just as much time moving his Porsche over and over to see it in different light to make sure the repair was perfect. Now mind you, that is not what I am doing these days. I am a body tech. But the point is these people REALLY expect perfection with these luxury cars.

By the way the last car I co-built and painted that was in the Oakland roadster show was a 15 year old build, Lacquer paint Model A coupe. It won best in class, over a fresh off the trailer brand new build 34 Ford. The year before was my brothers '22 Buick Roadster. After the show set up guys put us in an "out room", American Rodder said of the car: "Why would one of the most interesting, well detailed cars in the show wasn't in the main area, this 1922 Buick Roadster deserved a better place and the ticket buyer deserved a better look at it". It took 6th place in the hottest class with 13 other cars. The top car in the class was well over a quarter of a million dollars with a $65,000 paint job!! He had more money in his DISPLAY than my brother had in his car!



Now that you have glossed over most of what I have wrote and formed your own opinion on what I said, I thought I would make my point .

All I am saying is, the cars at a show are no different than the mini vans and suvs coming out of the collision body shops. Some are nice some are not. Some will last some will not. There is NOTHING that tells me they are any better than anywhere else. In fact, MOST of the "5000" cars at a GoodGuys show were painted in regular old bodyshops anyway. I am not saying that anyone who does custom or rod paint is not as good as a collision painter, I am just saying that by the ODDS a car show is not the best place to learn about painting ANYMORE than any collision shop.

Troy, thanks for the kind words. You know the interesting part is that I am not a "rep" I was a rep, for only five years. I have however painted for 25. I was a painter/bodyman for about 18 when I got the rep job. It was an education, having been a painter so many years it was an EDUCATION. It cracks me up how many people will hear the words "Paint rep" and think "salesman" and dummy who hasn't worked in the real world, never painted a car in their life. In the old days this may be true, in fact it was. These days, most all companies want expericanced painters as reps, or at least tech reps.

Most I knew, really know a lot. They can really teach the painter a lot if he will listen.

Last edited by MARTINSR; 07-31-2004 at 09:43 AM.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2004, 11:20 AM
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With drawn, No need.
BK

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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2004, 12:37 PM
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all i can think of to say, that isn't anymore inflammatory, is,'thank goodness you "professionals" are here now. i don't know HOW ON EARTH i was able to get my truck painted without the two of you arguing back and forth over who is the smartest.'

and with cheap crappy paint too.



i farted once.

Quote:
I read this for 6 months before I piped on and before that it was advice from two learning monitors and a "body shop owner"
like i said, thanks for gracing us with your presence.

but just because you know your *****, doesn't mean you can get away with being an arsehole.

and that is directed at NO ONE in particular. i've gotten that impression from more than one new paint person......
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2004, 01:02 PM
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2004, 04:27 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by MARTINSR

It cracks me up how many people will hear the words "Paint rep" and think "salesman" and dummy.


Your a mind reader also I see.
An Internet legion in his own mind for napa if I got that right
Oh please.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2004, 04:41 PM
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Ahemmm, I think the only mention of NAPA was by Barry.

There is nothing wrong with napa paint. I used it for many years,
The few times that I had any problems, the REP was there to help.

Troy

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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2004, 09:49 PM
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I don't argue with anyone to "prove how smart I am", I argue with them so the wrong info isn't read by the unsuspecting.

I apologize to anyone who has wasted time on this great forum trying to dodge this crap and learn something. I participated and should have shut down long ago.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2004, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MARTINSR
I don't argue with anyone to "prove how smart I am", I argue with them so the wrong info isn't read by the unsuspecting.

I apologize to anyone who has wasted time on this great forum trying to dodge this crap and learn something. I participated and should have shut down long ago.
************************************************
DITTO:
I agree! I have never seen a forum where there is so much knowledge as this one.
I have learned more here than any forum.
I was about to rip the dash out of a 57 t-bird and troy on here said stretch the speedo cable a 5 minute job.
Nice part about this forum is no question (if it is asked where you can understand it) never goes unanswered.
I think the best example is the Powder coating question most forums could not even answer and we have the two foremost authority's in the country on here.
Somebody on here has done it all at one time or another!
bk

Last edited by BarryK; 08-01-2004 at 05:11 AM.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2004, 09:59 PM
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Jeeez, its nice to see some resolve here! Some of us (like me!) have taken a lot of advice about street rod stuff, especially nailhead blending to our hotrods & learning via MartinSr. (great old all Buick '23(?) hotrod!!) & despite being a lot older (I'm '60) , just trying to learn about all the new stuff like sensors/FI conversions to old carb. mani's/etc. & PAINT. I have NO idea how the old lacquer stuff we used to buff for HOURS & WEEKS stands up to todays stuff although its obvious its BRITTLE! So guys, keep it cool for all us older guys that have to 2 finger our computers to keep up!
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2004, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by al37ford
MartinSr. (great old all Buick '23(?) hotrod!!)
I actually lied the quote in American Rodder called it a '23. It is actually a '22 so I corrected the AR quote.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2004, 10:31 AM
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There are a few of our members I have really come to appreciate, Randy, Troy, Martin, 4Jaw, Willys, I can't imagine this board without you guys. I've printed out advice from these members and have given copies to friends stuck with different problems, they are amazed I can come up with solutions to their problems at one site. Thanks, guys. Dan
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Old 08-02-2004, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MARTINSR
I don't remember if you planned on selling those goodies but I would be interested. The manifold is likely a "U-weld" kit made from Tubing. By brother had one, they were sold by a number of people, his was a Cragar.

I finally got the nailhead mani photos posted on the Yahoo nailhead site in the albums under "Random old nailhead stuff" Have a look & see if you can help ID! Thanks, Al D
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 08-17-2004, 01:00 AM
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YES having to much paint is a problem, we recently had a car painted and because of to much paint it all started to peel off in sheets
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