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Old 02-17-2011, 07:21 PM
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Can I plug weld this?

I need to replace a couple of outriggers on my chassis

The front and rear faces but up against the chassis and will require seam welding

However, the top and bottom faces overlap the main chassis rail, causing a lap joint

As I would like the joint to have a perfectly square edge, I was wondering if it would be possible to drill through the outrigger and then plug weld it to the chassis main rail?

The outrigger sits underneath the bulkhead, so would require a strong weld

If plug welds wouldn't be sufficient, could I cut a strip out instead and them seam weld through this?

This would keep my edge dead square, which I could then seam seal

What do you think?

The outriggers are the longer legs shown in the picture below
The second picture shows their fitment under the bulkhead




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Old 02-18-2011, 07:33 PM
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Should I go for just one row of holes, or could I do a couple of rows for more points of attachment?

I've just found out about hand held hole punches, so I'll be getting one of those on Sunday
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:57 PM
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I personally don't understand exactly what you want to do. Can you draw a picture or something of what you want to do?

Brian
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:19 PM
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Sorry, I'm hoping this picture may help

In the picture below, parts 209398 and 209399 weld onto the main chassis rail



Due to the shape of them, the vertical faces make a t-joint which it seam welded, and the horizontal faces form a lap weld, which are also seam welded

My question/ thought process is this

If I were to seam weld around the lap joints, the joint/edge would become 'wobbly'.......this is what I am trying to avoid

So, I was thinking, instead of seam welding the horizontal faces, could I punch some holes through them and plug weld them?

This would mean I wouldn't have to weld and distort the edge of the panel, but I don't know whether it would work with regards to it's strength
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:19 PM
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yes i think u can
four or five would be good i think
how long is the bracket?
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:02 PM
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I apologize for my lack of post count.

you can accomplish the same result with a few well placed stitch welds. this would reduce your penetration concerns and the longevity would be far greater than plugs.

there is a formula for the integrity of stitch welds compared to plugs to achieve this but the math is not worth the additional plugs.......

four3/8 plugs are not nearly as strong as 4 3/8 lap welds.

I am new to this site, and will try to check in more often
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:08 PM
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limiting the amount of weld reduces the "wobble" effect, and are far superior to plugs.

well places welds will add rigidity......but you already have stated that you understand this.

most outriggers are solid riveted in 2 or 3 places, with large steel rivets. which are far superior to plug welds. they flex, which reduces wobble at the frame.

sometimes less is more....if I understand your project, 4 well placed one half inch welds will be better than stock
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Old 02-19-2011, 07:01 AM
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I don't see any problem with four good plug welds as you described. First, you are looking at shear loads and those plugs will sustain a lot of shear. Second, by design, those wings are not going to support that much weight. Third, unlike suspension components, you will not get the constant pounding. Fourth, unibody suspension components are mostly spot welded layers of thinner metal. I assume there is a flange on the bottom of the frame like the top and will receive plug welds as well. Is the wing open at the bottom so you can stitch the inside to the frame?

Trees
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Old 02-19-2011, 07:46 AM
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I'd use a slot weld.
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Old 02-19-2011, 01:12 PM
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Thank you to everybody that has replied so far

The bottom face of the outrigger is the same as the top, with a lap joint over the main rail
It's not cut away at all

My plan is/was to run a bead along the front and rear faces, and grind them smooth, then run a bead along the bottom too

I know the lap joint at the bottom will have the wobbly weld as I'm only just starting - my weld won't be brilliant looking, and I won't be able to grind a lap joint straight again


So, in summary....

Seam weld, and grind the sides and bottom
And plug weld the top
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Old 02-20-2011, 10:42 AM
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I got myself through primer today

I'm going to clean the chassis rail down to bare metal and apply the primer before welding

The outrigger is a new piece, and has e-coat on it
Should I leave this in place, or remove it?

I'm guessing I should remove it and apply the zinc primer to the underside of the lapjoint - so I'll have zinc on both pieces that make up the lap joint
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Old 03-06-2011, 03:51 PM
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should i removed the e-coat from the new piece and apply weld through primer to this too?

should i have weld through primer mated to weld through primer for the lap joint, or is e-coat mated to weld through primer the way to go?
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Old 03-06-2011, 05:00 PM
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Clean all pieces to bare metal and then apply weld through primer. I assume you mean epoxy primer when you say e-coat. That will contaminate your weld joints big time. When it comes to good welds, you cant get your surfaces too clean. Can't you flip the frame so you will be flat welding vice over head welding? Over head welding takes practice and experience.

Trees
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Old 03-06-2011, 05:14 PM
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Yeah, i'll flip the chassis when i weld it

The part I'm welding to the main frame is a new piece and is supplied with a black OEM style primer
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:12 PM
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"E coat" is "Electro-coat" which is not epoxy, it is the factory primer on most OEM parts. It is a perfect coating for your welding joint. Do some testing and see to be sure because some "e coats" are not real electrocoat at all but just cheap primer.
Here is a (Click here) "Basics of Basics" to MIG welding for you.

Brian
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