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Old 06-12-2007, 02:51 PM
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Can I wetsand & buff my paint? (details inside)

This is my first post so it's like a hunded miles long...

The question is: Can I sand and buff my single stage paint?

The details are: I'm just another youngster obsessed with hot rods, imports, muscles cars, whatever. I painted my car on sunday, two days ago, in the rent-a-paint booth shop down in Los Angeles. This is the first time i've ever painted Anything (with the exception of small test patches on old/unused fenders etc)...when I was done and rolled my car out of the booth, I laid my eyes on (what is probably) the worst orange peel in the history of automobile paint. There's no runs or anything, just a TON of friggin orangepeel.

I lick nuts at shooting paint (apparently). I don't know if It's my own fault, or the piece of garbage HVLP gun i used. Anywho, I want to try to be positive and correct this situation.

I painted my car with a Red pearl single stage acrylic urethane paint. I bought it from www.restorationshop.com and it came with, and I used 4:1:1 Paint:hardener:reducer If I wetsand and buff the paint, will it reduce the longevity of the paint? Will it do something bad?

I'm really in need of some guidance. Everything I know about painting is just from reading articles and books and magazines, I have no formal training and no one to go to for help....that's why I'm seeking out some information from some people that might be kind enough to help me with my project.

I really appreciate everyone's help. Thanks!

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Old 06-12-2007, 05:10 PM
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If you're just starting out or are an infrequent painter, you're really better off to use acrylic lacquer in a solid color. The advantages are that solid color lacquers can be post spray sanded and polished which gets you around the orange peel if the color coat is thick enough so you won't cut through it while sanding.

Pearls and metallics have shiny stuff in suspension, when you sand them you slice up the shiny stuff which dulls it, for the most part polish or clear coat won't bring the glint of these materials back.

As a fix, you could sand what you've got, then do a light recoat keeping the material amount down or the speed up and use a slow thinner to give it a chance to flow out, thus avoiding orange peel. This is a tough part to learn, one is the rhythm needed to lay it on nicely and the other is the reducer chemistry which changes with temperature and humidity as well as the appliers technique. Lots of guys recommend putting paint on pretty dry as a means of avoiding these type problems, I don't necessary endorse this but it works.

Sanding should be slow with fine paper 600-800-1000 lots of water and some detergent followed by a good rinse wiped down with lint free rags.

Bogie
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Old 06-13-2007, 12:13 PM
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Well, thank you for your insight. I think i've come to the conclusion that I have to do something, because I'm not going to want to drive around with all that peel on my car. Here's what I'm going to do, and anyone tell me if you think this is a good idea:

I'm going to sand with 1000 and then 1200, wet then buff with a rubbing compound then with a polisher.... and if after all of that it still looks like crap, then I'll just scuff the whole car with something like 220 or something and just re-shoot it. I might as well try to sand and buff it right? If it doesn't work then at least I have the materials for a sand and buff next time I guess.
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Old 06-13-2007, 12:26 PM
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220?? Way to coarse. If your gonna scuff and shoot, 600 is plenty coarse enough. Don't make any more work for yourself.
chris
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Old 06-13-2007, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyger
Well, thank you for your insight. I think i've come to the conclusion that I have to do something, because I'm not going to want to drive around with all that peel on my car. Here's what I'm going to do, and anyone tell me if you think this is a good idea:

I'm going to sand with 1000 and then 1200, wet then buff with a rubbing compound then with a polisher.... and if after all of that it still looks like crap, then I'll just scuff the whole car with something like 220 or something and just re-shoot it. I might as well try to sand and buff it right? If it doesn't work then at least I have the materials for a sand and buff next time I guess.
You can give sanding and polishing a shot. If you can take out the orange peel without getting into the primer, you can buff it up. It probably won't come out as glistening as virgin surface, but it will probably be at least decent.

If you scuff it for a reshoot over fresh color you shouldn't go coarser then 400 wet paper. The rougher the surface left by the paper the more finish work you need to do. Again if you shoot a solid and especially in lacquer, acrylic or not, you can fiddle with the finished surface. If you're shooting a more exotic paint like acrylic enamels, urethanes, or epoxies with metallic/metal flake or pearl whether one or two parts, you've got to lay a smooth finish down as post spray sanding dulls the materials that give the paint the metallic/metal-flake or pearl finish. Buffing, glazes, or clear coats can help bring some of the shine back if you post finish sand on the color, but it never will flash the way it would if you hadn't taken an abrasive to it.

Bogie
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Old 06-13-2007, 01:49 PM
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I just sprayed my first real paint too, also single stage, mine is PPG DCC urethane. I also took the paper and buffer to mine to get the peel and trash out of it. I am happy with the results, but you do have to be very careful to not cut through your paint when sanding. I wet sanded with 1000, then some areas 1500, then 2000 all over. Buffed with System One pro-kit.
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Old 06-13-2007, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 48cad
220?? Way to coarse. If your gonna scuff and shoot, 600 is plenty coarse enough. Don't make any more work for yourself.
chris
Ok cool, Wasn't sure, I was thinking 220 would be too coarse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
You can give sanding and polishing a shot. If you can take out the orange peel without getting into the primer, you can buff it up. It probably won't come out as glistening as virgin surface, but it will probably be at least decent.

If you scuff it for a reshoot over fresh color you shouldn't go coarser then 400 wet paper. The rougher the surface left by the paper the more finish work you need to do. Again if you shoot a solid and especially in lacquer, acrylic or not, you can fiddle with the finished surface. If you're shooting a more exotic paint like acrylic enamels, urethanes, or epoxies with metallic/metal flake or pearl whether one or two parts, you've got to lay a smooth finish down as post spray sanding dulls the materials that give the paint the metallic/metal-flake or pearl finish. Buffing, glazes, or clear coats can help bring some of the shine back if you post finish sand on the color, but it never will flash the way it would if you hadn't taken an abrasive to it.

Bogie
Right, I understand what you mean, but I guess I would rather have a paint that wasn't as nice as original, but better then what I have with all the peel.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGSKY
I just sprayed my first real paint too, also single stage, mine is PPG DCC urethane. I also took the paper and buffer to mine to get the peel and trash out of it. I am happy with the results, but you do have to be very careful to not cut through your paint when sanding. I wet sanded with 1000, then some areas 1500, then 2000 all over. Buffed with System One pro-kit.
That looks great! I'll have to pay extra special attention to breaking through.
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Old 06-13-2007, 07:21 PM
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Sand the whole car dry with a D/A with 1200 grit, then 1500, then buff. Don't wet sand it, that's old school and the results wont be as nice and will take 5 times as long. You will go through a lot of paper, but the end result will be a flawless finish. And forget about lacquer. That's 80's technology. The easiest to paint is single stage urethane for solids, and base clear for metallics,period. My only concern is the pearls in your single stage. I don't know how they will react to being sanded.I just finished doing the exact same thing on my car, so I know it works.Dan
www.geocities.com/dantechfab
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:16 PM
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How many coats of paint were applied? If the peel is really bad definately sand it flat with 400 or 600 and reshoot. You've picked one of the toughest systems to paint-a singlestage urethane pearl. Gun setup is critical and it sounds like you didn't have enough air for atomization or the fluid adjustment was out too far. Buffing a singlestage metalic or pearl is a challenge and you can't remove much material at all-just a light sanding with fine paper and a polish otherwise you're likely to cut through the top coat and then the metalics or pearls look all messed up. If at all possible try to find a painter to guide you through the next shoot, show you gun setup, etc... And for your next project use a solid color or switch to a basecoat clearcoat system-both will be much easier to spray and buffable.
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Old 06-13-2007, 10:57 PM
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Hemi43; Sent you a Pm.
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Old 06-15-2007, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemi43
Sand the whole car dry with a D/A with 1200 grit, then 1500, then buff. Don't wet sand it, that's old school and the results wont be as nice and will take 5 times as long. You will go through a lot of paper, but the end result will be a flawless finish. And forget about lacquer. That's 80's technology. The easiest to paint is single stage urethane for solids, and base clear for metallics,period. My only concern is the pearls in your single stage. I don't know how they will react to being sanded.I just finished doing the exact same thing on my car, so I know it works.Dan
www.geocities.com/dantechfab
Dry sanding really? That's interesting. I was under the impression that wetsanding was a more controlled way to sand. I'll dry sand if it'll really be better, but I'm not sure I've never heard this before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by baddbob
How many coats of paint were applied? If the peel is really bad definately sand it flat with 400 or 600 and reshoot. You've picked one of the toughest systems to paint-a singlestage urethane pearl. Gun setup is critical and it sounds like you didn't have enough air for atomization or the fluid adjustment was out too far. Buffing a singlestage metalic or pearl is a challenge and you can't remove much material at all-just a light sanding with fine paper and a polish otherwise you're likely to cut through the top coat and then the metalics or pearls look all messed up. If at all possible try to find a painter to guide you through the next shoot, show you gun setup, etc... And for your next project use a solid color or switch to a basecoat clearcoat system-both will be much easier to spray and buffable.
There was about just over 3 quarts of paint on the whole car. That's including the hardener and the reducer. I'm going to try and sand before I re paint because I would rather try to fix it first. If I can't fix it, Then I'll re-shoot. I think from now on I'll do base/clear instead. The reason I chose single stage, is because of my time limitations. The rent a booth only rent 3 hours at a time. I'm thinking If I do a project again, I'll just rent 2 slots at a time or something. I just really need to buy a good gun and start practing more.
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Old 06-15-2007, 03:27 PM
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Thanks everyone for all of your input. It's greatly appreciated. With every passing day I learn something new....
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Old 07-05-2007, 12:59 AM
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I to agree, you should use a base coat clear coat, apply a couple coats of base, then around 4 coats of clear. sand with 1000, then 1500 and buff. only problem is im not a pro at buffing so that is why im in this part to. Lol
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