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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2013, 01:44 PM
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Duplicolor Paint Shop, Primer, Gray Reduced Ready-To-Spray Lacquer- is the primer I used. It was primer from Napa.

I got the sealer, activator, reducers, paint, and clear coat from a body shop.

The 1st layer of primer is what you see in the picture. It came on the car.

I sanded the 2nd layer of primer with 180.

This was before the 3rd layer of primer that I did with 320, then sealer I did with 320, and then the repair primer I did today with 600 wet.

This is my first paint job so I am a novice.

Thanks for the compliment. The car was painted 15 years ago, but wasnt done to perfection.

Like I said, bumps/bubbles in the paint from perhaps water in the compressor, the bondo is bubbling on the rocker panels, the rear bumper has scratches where someone overshot the trunk with a grinder and scratched the bumper, taped off weather stripping instead of removing/replacing it, and a rust hole in the trunk floor.

I spent 200$ to paint the door and the fender but I realize it needs to be totally redone.

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Old 08-20-2013, 01:56 PM
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also you are just using you hand to sand Right? if so this maybe some of the problem as the pressure is not uniform.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:13 PM
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I used a piece of a wooden paint stir stick and wrapped it in sand paper, so it sanded evenly. I used my hand in some spots to get uneven parts of the fender.

Again, alot of people are saying its a chemical reaction or incompatibility issue, however the door turned out fine. Just the fender seems to have this issue.

Door was painted the same time, prepped, sanded, primed, and sealed exactly the same as the fender.
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:28 PM
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paint stick is not proper. as the edges are sharp.

a kit like this is what you need!

http://www.eastwood.com/7-piece-sanding-block-kit.html
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Old 08-20-2013, 02:31 PM
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I noticed that, but I was careful.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2013, 03:31 PM
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Using a lacquer or 1 stage primer fro base clear is never a good situation...using a lacquer primer, unless your applying a lacquer paint over top is never a good situation.

Now your applying a catalyzed sealer over top of an un-catalyzed substrate...a good analogy to explain why this isn't a good idea would be...you wouldn't repair a rubber boot by gluing on a cloth patch...it might work...if the glue is water resistant but, wouldn't it be a better idea to use a rubber patch?

In all cases the finish of your top coat is only as good as what's underneath it. A 2 part Urethane or a 2 part Epoxy primer is what you need to apply, allow to cure, block sand (with a real block) and then base coat followed by clear coat.

Start to finish...prep the area you wish to prime with a grit no coarser than 180 grit...use 180 grit on a block for best results. After the area for repair has been sanded, apply the first coat of either primer, Epoxy or 2K Urethane, allow 30 minutes before applying a second coat, after the second coat, allow the primer to cure, generally over night. When the primer has cured, spray or wipe on guide coat and block the area with 600 grit wet or 400 grit dry paper. If you are blending the color, all areas other than the repair area should be preped in 1,000 grit wet paper. Mask for paint, clean with wax and grease remover, tack and apply your base, apply base until you have coverage (if you need advice on blending the base coat, let me know) usually 2 to 3 coats allowing flash time between coats...apply 2 coats of clear with, again flash time between coats.

This is how to base a repair area in a nut shell...notice no sealer required.

Hope this helps.

Ray
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2013, 07:52 PM
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man..i would say at this point...clear the panels, let them dry atleast 24hrs, guide coat and sand with 600 grit paper. Rebase and reclear. The more metallic in the base, the more it will show scratches. I've even had trouble if there was a bare metal spot the size of a dime. Where the metallics layed on the metal looked different than where it layed on the primer. In your case, if you clear the whole panel you will have an even substrate to work with and the clear will fill the scratches. I just did an el-cheapo car lot car that way. I did the body work and primer finishing with 180 grit. Cleared the panels and sanded with 320, rebased and cleared...no issues. It was a solid color so if it had been metallic i would have sanded the clear with 600 wet. I know its not by the book but it will take care of your issues. Just my humble opinion.
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Old 08-20-2013, 08:46 PM
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Without a doubt "Preacherman", that will work...it will solve the problem....today. I feel that in order to best resolve a situation is offer a solution that will also contribute to not running into these problems in the future. It's the old story, feed a hungry man and he's not hungry for a day, teach him to fish and...

The OP also mentioned that the car needed to be redone in the future...if he is going to attempt doing the car himself, he has a starting point of information. I asked to know what products he used for this repair, the reason I did that was not just for the OP, I asked for all the other people that read these forums looking for answers to questions similar to this...if they read a quick fix instead of a solution, I can see a number of problems happening in the future.

During my career in this industry, I have been fortunate enough to have represented several major paint manufacturer's. I would never recommend to finish bodywork and primer in 180, clear the panels, sand with 320 grit, (you said rebase, but I can't imagine wasting base coat like that, I hope that was an error in typing) and cleared...no issues ...those two words are two of the scariest words in a Paint Reps vocabulary...other phrases that scare the heck out of a Paint Rep are "and I've never had a problem" or "I've done it that way a thousand times". Strange thing is, one person can do things a certain way that aren't by the book and get away with it...all you need is one guy that reads what is posted here and it doesn't work...when I give advice here or one on one, I feel my chance of the advice working is if I follow the book and know what I am teaching has a better chance of working.

I'm not trying to offend and please don't take it that way "preacherman", but, I do have a question. If you finished your filler and your primer in 180 grit, cleared it, then sanded it. Wouldn't it have been faster and cheaper to apply 2 more coats of primer, block the car with 320, base coat the car and clear it?

Ray
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:01 PM
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OK, if I understand correctly, the door is ok and the fender is the problem, and to the best of my understanding the none of the base on the door or the fender has been clear coated yet (correct me if I misunderstand). Since the problem remains after the second round of primer, it would seem that there is a problem between the lacquer primer and the sealer or base, or possibly the paint on the car prior to the repairs. So with that said, I would think adding anymore lacquer is only going to keep aggravating the problem, and I don't know what base you are using or how it would react to the lacquer. The correct way to solve this would be to strip the fender to bare metal and start over, using the steps and products that Ray has mentioned. However, since the OP has already said he understands the car will have to be completely redone in the future, I can only assume this is a temporary repair until he can do it right. With that said, I would do one of two things at this point (as long as everyone understands that neither of which are the correct way to do things). You can sand the fender with 600 wet, then put 2 coats of a 2K urethane primer to fill any scratches and hold down any problem areas, then 600 wet (1000 if it is a fine metallic) the 2K, base and clear. Or you could do as was said and clear it, 600 wet (again 1000 if it is a fine metallic) and base and clear. Either will work for the short term, are they going to last any extended length of time? Most likely not, but if this is a "quick fix" to make the car look a little better temporarily until you can strip the car to bare metal and do it right, either option should work.

Again, the right way is the steps and products Ray has provided. The suggestions made by Preacherman and me are only a temporary fix and everyone should understand that. If this were planned as a long term repair, I would not even recommend these things. But since there are plans and expectations to do a restoration on the car and do things right in the future, I think either is a reasonable solution.

Ray, I have all the respect in the world for you and I am not trying to argue with your suggestions. I agree there is a right way, and then there is every other way, and I hope everyone else that reads this understands that as well. I mean no disrespect to anyone with my suggestions, and hope that I have been clear that I would not normally recommend doing this type of "fix" for anything other than a temporary band-aid.

Kelly
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
It's the old story, feed a hungry man and he's not hungry for a day, teach him to fish and...
he pisses the wife off because he's always gone fishin?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-20-2013, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer View Post
he pisses the wife off because he's always gone fishin?
LOL...Lizer...That one deserves a gold star on the fridge...LOL...especially with our latetest conversations...LOL...good one Josh.

Ray
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Old 08-20-2013, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carolinacustoms View Post
OK, if I understand correctly, the door is ok and the fender is the problem, and to the best of my understanding the none of the base on the door or the fender has been clear coated yet (correct me if I misunderstand). Since the problem remains after the second round of primer, it would seem that there is a problem between the lacquer primer and the sealer or base, or possibly the paint on the car prior to the repairs. So with that said, I would think adding anymore lacquer is only going to keep aggravating the problem, and I don't know what base you are using or how it would react to the lacquer. The correct way to solve this would be to strip the fender to bare metal and start over, using the steps and products that Ray has mentioned. However, since the OP has already said he understands the car will have to be completely redone in the future, I can only assume this is a temporary repair until he can do it right. With that said, I would do one of two things at this point (as long as everyone understands that neither of which are the correct way to do things). You can sand the fender with 600 wet, then put 2 coats of a 2K urethane primer to fill any scratches and hold down any problem areas, then 600 wet (1000 if it is a fine metallic) the 2K, base and clear. Or you could do as was said and clear it, 600 wet (again 1000 if it is a fine metallic) and base and clear. Either will work for the short term, are they going to last any extended length of time? Most likely not, but if this is a "quick fix" to make the car look a little better temporarily until you can strip the car to bare metal and do it right, either option should work.

Again, the right way is the steps and products Ray has provided. The suggestions made by Preacherman and me are only a temporary fix and everyone should understand that. If this were planned as a long term repair, I would not even recommend these things. But since there are plans and expectations to do a restoration on the car and do things right in the future, I think either is a reasonable solution.

Ray, I have all the respect in the world for you and I am not trying to argue with your suggestions. I agree there is a right way, and then there is every other way, and I hope everyone else that reads this understands that as well. I mean no disrespect to anyone with my suggestions, and hope that I have been clear that I would not normally recommend doing this type of "fix" for anything other than a temporary band-aid.

Kelly
Kelly, I understand and will say if you haven't tried to take a short cut in this trade, all that means is that you haven't been doing it long enough. Listen, I'm not disagreeing, my first line was, something to this effect...it will fix the situation. I feel that if a particular piece of advice is given and anyone giving that advice knows that it isn't following tried tested and true procedures, the tried tested and true procedures should also be given....In my opinion, that would be one of the best disclaimers you can offer...and you are in effect still giving the right advice in the end.

I am sure that "preacherman's" intentions are only with the OP best intentions at heart...and that is to be commended. However, it would be an Idea where you can't really go wrong with putting out the right information to go along with the quick fix. I fully understand that "preacherman" knows the right way, that's obvious in his posts....just for the sake of the OP and all the other people reading these posts, a great way to get respect is to offer the correct information as well.

And "Preacherman"...no offence at all and I hope you understand what I feel to me is logical.

All the best.
Ray
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2013, 03:56 AM
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No offence taken at all my friend...if everybody did things exactly the way i did the world would be an extremely dull place..lol! Ray, you had asked why i finished my body work and primer in 180 and then cleared as opposed to 320 with base and clear...the truck had issues with the clear peeling off from the previous paint job. I got everything smoothed back down and straighten out with 180 then clear to seal it all up. I know the clear want lift or cook anything as long as you do not use thinner in the clear and once it sets up you can go at it like a wild man with what ever base you like. The clear i used was u-pol $50 a kit and i used half a kit to do the "seal" job which is $25 which is cheaper than i could have primed the truck with any good 2k or poly primer. Also, with the primer...i know i would have had issues with lifting where the previous clear had been feathered in and anywhere i had sanded through to the base or previous layers of paint...thats why i just cleared it from the get-go. Thats also why i recommend the same "fix" for the o.p....might not be by the book but it will work everytime. Again, no offence and i do agree, if you can address the issue of scratches and what caused them then you can avoid it in the future..i'm with ya 100% on that...i need all the help i can get..LOL! Have a great day fella's!
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:48 AM
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Thanks for the explanation and it does explain your reasoning. I realize that the vehicle that this was done on was low budget, car lot, not gonna be a show car any time soon kind of job. If it had been a vehicle that the car lot cared about or had value, it would have been stripped and the substrates built up properly, then top coated with a quality base and clear...correct?

So, this would be an example of what to do if you don't care about your car, or, as in the OP's case, a quick fix and the entire car will be redone properly in the future. As long as the emphasis is on this being a quick fix, a band aid solution and it wouldn't be a recommended procedure on anything, any vehicle that is near and dear to someones heart, by all means, this is a way to make it look shiny long enough for a car to sell or get someone through a season of driving, with the full intentions of redoing the car.

I at times forget that car lot work can bring out the ingenuity in any shop, body man or painter. When I have been asked to do car lot work in the past, I can say that I have been fortunate that the experience was short lived. It's hard to make a dollar with what they are prepared to pay and they always have the proverbial carrot of making up the price on the next job or "if you do this one for me, I'll get you some new car warranty work". My car lot career ended when I said "you get me some new car warranty work and then I'll do this one."...LOL.

All the best "preacherman", I do understand.

Ray
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:17 PM
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Yep Ray..u hit the nail on the head! I would like to be full time resto only but thats not possible at this point and the car lot boys want it back quick and cheap..lol! And yes Sir, if it needed to be on the money i would have stripped it down to metal and came up from there. With the og posters comment about the car needing to be redone all over, i just thought clearing it for a quick fix that will last a few years and fix the issue was the way to go. But i agree with you 100%, to do a job right and expect it to last you need to go to bare metal. I tell people all the time that the top is no better than whats under it.
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