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-   -   Can someone ID this motor for me? (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/can-someone-id-motor-me-180738.html)

sunbelt57 07-08-2010 07:31 PM

Can someone ID this motor for me?
 
4 Attachment(s)
Its in a '77 F150 fwd. The guy who sold it to me told me it was a 400. If no one can tell right off the bat, then what? Take the head off and measure the bore and stroke? I thought I saw something that looked like #'s under the starter (passenger side of the block). Maybe I should check the VIN before I waste your time. It may be the original motor.

sunbelt57 07-08-2010 07:37 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This says its on the front of the rocker cover. (I just now looked and its been painted over).

cobalt327 07-08-2010 08:34 PM

Looks like a 400M to me, HERE is a build-up by HR mag.

sunbelt57 07-08-2010 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobalt327
Looks like a 400M to me, HERE is a build-up by HR mag.

Thanks, Mark. I guess that's what you folks call a 'smogger'. That carb should be right at home with it. I'm looking into what I could possibly do to give it more low end torque for climbing hills. Maybe even a mild turbo with FI or even blow-threw because I want to take it into the mountains.

cobalt327 07-08-2010 10:38 PM

The 400M had low HP ratings from the factory, but it has a 4" stroke, a 4" bore and is much like a stroked 351C w/a tall deck. That means the heads will flow adequately and if the right parts are used, the engine can make good power and torque.

But once you start talking turbos, I'm drawing a blank. You'd need forged pistons to be safe, and the set-up would take a good amount of fabrication- but it could be done, I suppose.

Another option is to use a bigger engine to start with, like a 460.

66GMC 07-08-2010 10:59 PM

Yep, it looks like a 351M/400 alright ... and it could be either as the cylinder blocks are identical for both engines. You *might* get lucky and find a metal tag under the coil bracket.

As has already been said, these engines can be "hot-rodded" ... but IMO, the 460 would be a better platform.

Judging by the paint job and the silicone ... I'd say that someone has recently done some work on that engine. But whether it's been freshened, patched, rebuilt or remanufactured ... it's hard to say.

cobalt327 07-09-2010 03:29 AM

It's true the 351M/400 looks like the 400M (both part of the "335 series" family of engines, along w/the 351C). Even the designation "351M/400" confuses the issue, IMO.

I've read the dampers are different (400M thicker), but w/o the two to compare, that's no help w/o the actual dimension- which I don't currently have. The only real difference is in the cranks- the 351 has a 3.5" stroke, the 400 has a 4" stroke (biggest Ford stroke).

There will be a VIN designation for what engine came in the truck. In 1977, this would be "H" if a 351M/400, "S" if the 400M.

Check your VIN Number:
Fourth character is the Engine Code

A - 6 cyl - 240cid - 1BBL carb - 1973-74
B - 6 cyl - 300 cid - 1BBL carb - 1973-80
G - V8 - 302cid - 2BBL carb - 1973-80
H - V8 - 351cid - 2BBL carb - 1973-80
Y - V8 - 360cid - 2BBL carb - 1973-76
H - V8 - 390cid - 2BBL carb - 1973-76
M - V8 - 390cid - 4BBL carb - 1974-78
S - V8 - 400cid - 2BBL carb - 1977-80
J - V8 - 460cid - 4BBL carb - 1973-80

The block and head casting numbers are supposed to be the same, and deck height, heads, intake are all identical for all practical purposes, it seems.

One improvement can be made fairly easily, that is to change the timing set to a non retarded aftermarket timing set. From around '73 or so, the cam timing was retarded to meet emissions requirements. If it looks like the front of the engine has been apart, this may have been done already.

Changing the timing set and adding the 4-barrel intake/carb with cold air feeding the carb and a set of headers w/dual exhaust that include low restriction mufflers and an "X" or "H" connection between the two sides located after the collector but before the mufflers, are the most beneficial mods that can be easily and relatively cheaply made. A good tuneup will help, too.

Swapping cams is another option, but the heads come as a non adjustable valve train that have to be modified to make them adjustable in order to use an aftermarket cam. Things start to get spendy at and beyond this stage.

Good INFO SITE.

Some more INFO.

VIN number decoder. Entering your VIN will tell you about your truck.

KULTULZ 07-09-2010 08:13 AM

There is no 400M.

The 335 Engine Series is comprised of the 351C/351M and 400.

C (Cleveland) and/or M (Modified) differentiate the 351 CI displacement engines, the C being low deck and the M high deck (same as 400 block).

The 351C was discontinued in 1974 and the 351M was introduced in 1975 so as both engines (351M/400) could use one block.

cobalt327 07-09-2010 08:16 PM

I wouldn't let it bother you too much- Chevy never called their 396 BBC engine a "BBC", either- but it's known what you mean when you type 396 BBC, just like it's known that a "400M" is a Ford 400cid engine.

So, while "400" may well be the one and only true correct designation for the 400M, I will continue to use 400M (incorrect as it may be) as a way to discern it from any other 400 engine, or typing out "400 Ford" or 335 series 400", or "the 400 Ford that looks like the 351M engine", etc. It is just easier and it assures there's no confusion. ;)

ScojoDak 07-09-2010 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobalt327
I wouldn't let it bother you too much- Chevy never called their 396 BBC engine a "BBC", either- but it's known what you mean when you type 396 BBC

Chevy Big Blocks from Wikipedia.

cobalt327 07-09-2010 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScojoDak
Chevy Big Blocks from Wikipedia.

Thanks for reinforcing my position. :thumbup:

KULTULZ 08-09-2010 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobalt327

I wouldn't let it bother you too much- Chevy never called their 396 BBC engine a "BBC", either- but it's known what you mean when you type 396 BBC, just like it's known that a "400M" is a Ford 400cid engine.

So, while "400" may well be the one and only true correct designation for the 400M, I will continue to use 400M

(incorrect as it may be) as a way to discern it from any other 400 engine, or typing out "400 Ford" or 335 series 400", or "the 400 Ford that looks like the 351M engine", etc.

It is just easier and it assures there's no confusion. ;)

While it may help you in your seemingly limitless fog, you are posting incorrect information and causing further confusion among others.

Quote:

The 400 335 Series was released in 1971 to replace the 390 FE in passenger car service. With the previous release of the 351C in 1970, FORD had two different block heights in the same engine family, hence two different engines.

The 351C was discontinued after the 1974 model year it's having been used as both a passenger car and performance engine.

FORD simply took the 400 block, de-stroked it and made an engine that was available for replacement for the 351C 2V in passenger car service and the 360 FE in light truck service. The FE 390 was subsequently discontinued from service in the light truck lineup. FORD now had two engine sizes available for service using one block instead of two ($$$).

The proper nomenclature is 351M/400. MODIFIED is the general description used by FORD to differentiate the new engine from the previous 351C and the 351W.

The M designation is commonly referred to “Modified”, and is derived from the use of both "Cleveland" (block, heads) and "Windsor" (crankshaft) components in the same engine. A "Modification" for the parts intended application so to speak.

This gave FORD a small displacement engine series (302-351W), a mid-size engine series (351M-400) and a large size engine series (429-460) to cover all possible needs.
Quote:

In all discussions of Ford V8 engines, it is extremely important to understand that Ford, unlike its competitors at the time, did not have just small block and big block engines. Ford engines generally came in three size ranges, sized to best suit the application.
I think you need to stay with GM. It doesn't seem to tax you as much.

cobalt327 08-09-2010 08:04 PM

I'm sorry for you if you cannot grasp the concept of using "400M". This wouldn't have anything to do w/Post #15, now would it? :rolleyes: LOL

KULTULZ 08-10-2010 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobalt327

I'm sorry for you if you cannot grasp the concept of using "400M".

Don't concern yourself. I do not live in a fantasy world where I can name anything as to my interpretations as do you. I would rather use FOMOCO terms so all will have a chance of understanding what the subject being discussed is actually about.

Quote:

This wouldn't have anything to do w/

Post #15, now would it? :rolleyes:
I don't think so. Could you please enlighten me as you have previously stated you posted your last word on that subject and here you are again.

Guess that is part of making things up as you go.

Quote:

LOL
Maybe consider getting that wild hair clipped. Giggling makes you appear childish.

cobalt327 08-10-2010 03:19 AM

In the HAMB thread you quoted from, that contains this:
Quote:

The 400 335 Series was released in 1971 to replace...
also has guys posting "400M" as a way to ID that particular engine.



Quote:

In all discussions of Ford V8 engines, it is extremely important to understand that Ford, unlike its competitors at the time, did not have just small block and big block engines. Ford engines generally came in three size ranges, sized to best suit the application.
Interestingly, the SAME article/wiki page you quoted from above, ALSO has this passage (next to the last paragraph):
Quote:

The medium range of displacement needs was met by the 400M engine, a Cleveland-style block with a raised deck allowing it to use a longer stroke crankshaft...
Live by the wiki, die by the wiki. :mwink:

Since Google is your friend, try taking a look here, at some of the 296,000-odd hits for "400m engine".

Just so we're clear on this- as I said previously- I will continue to use "400M" when referring to the 335 series 400cid Ford engine. You ain't gotta like it- but you WILL deal w/it.

Lastly, the OP didn’t seem to have any problem understanding me- and the OP is who I was addressing in the first place.

Besides, if that’s ALL you are able to find “wrong” w/my posts, I’ll call that pretty damn good for someone lost in a "seemingly limitless fog"! LOL

You are dismissed.


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