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-   -   Can you reverse a R and P (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/can-you-reverse-r-p-231960.html)

sbutler 04-18-2013 08:07 AM

Can you reverse a R and P
 
I finally got all my clearance issues worked out on my S-10 framed '39 Ford.
Martinsr, you'll love this, then I noticed that my center-steer rack from a Cavalier, which was firewall mounted and rear steer, will turn left when I turn right as it is now. Will tear it down today to see if it is reversible or does anyone already have this info? Is there another center-steer rack that is already reverse from a Cavalier? If I can't fix this, and I have many hours of modifications on this frame setup already, then I am ready to throw in the towel. Main thing that I hate is I cut out a floor that was 75% good to channell it over the S-10 frame and floors are expensive.
Now, buy a complete roller since the old frame is gone, or spend more and find another car, maybe even a driver. Since I am retired now, I do have access to my retirement account so I can do either. Thanks, Steve

timothale 04-18-2013 09:25 AM

rack choice ?
 
on a rack , usually the steering shaft comes out at an angle so reversing would move the steering wheel to the center of the car, and probably have a lot of engine interference, need more U joints, As a side note When I worked at ford, a crate of mercury steering gears got installed into trucks, the castings were the same, The driver at the end of the line almost wiped out the seat cushion shop. He turned the steering wheel right and the truck went left. Also chrysler cars and trucks used the same castings with left and right gear sets, Probably time to start checking bone yards for another R & P

sbutler 04-18-2013 01:13 PM

Thanks for input. Was hoping to internally flip it with gears or inverting rack gear. I will tear it down today and report back. Steve

sbutler 04-18-2013 05:05 PM

Disassembled the rack this afternoon. There is no way to reverse one. The pinion would have to be on the bottom of the rack gear which would be a completely different casting. The rack teeth are angled so I don't think changing the pinion gear will reverse one. If I don't come up with the proper rack I will mark this off as experience and join Martinsr in his "no frame swap" crusade. Thanks, Steve

joe_padavano 04-19-2013 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbutler (Post 1667954)
Disassembled the rack this afternoon. There is no way to reverse one. The pinion would have to be on the bottom of the rack gear which would be a completely different casting. The rack teeth are angled so I don't think changing the pinion gear will reverse one. If I don't come up with the proper rack I will mark this off as experience and join Martinsr in his "no frame swap" crusade. Thanks, Steve

Factory R&P units are not designed to be reversible. You can't use a rear steer R&P for a front steer application or vice versa, for this reason. Get a front-steer R&P and your problems are solved.

joe_padavano 04-19-2013 11:05 AM

Unisteer sells a bolt-in R&P kit for the S-10 chassis, though this does beg the question if you went through all the trouble to swap a frame to get modern suspension, steering, and brakes, why did you then muck with the steering? Might be a whole lot easier (and DEFINITELY cheaper) to get a quick ratio box for the stock S-10 steering linkage.

sbutler 04-19-2013 04:25 PM

Joe, thanks for input. I'll try to address your questions. The Unisteer only comes in a manual steer set up. Guess I'm spoiled. Instead of setting my 39 body on top of the deep S-10 frame, I channelled it 5", which opened up problems of it's own. The factory steering box was running directly into the power steering pump. I cut the frame horn and moved the box over 2 1/4" and tilted it up just a few degrees. After lengthening the center link, done by a certified welder and where it would not effect the steering, I discovered that screwing with this really bit me in the ***. So back to the center take off rack, which would work great if it was for front steer. If anyone can help identify a center take off, front steer rack, I can make this work. Thanks again, Steve

sbutler 04-22-2013 08:19 AM

I found a center take off, front steer rack. A tip on the forum somewhere led me to it. They are on Dodge Intrepids and other models. Looks like it will work great. Then I searched a little and you would not believe the problems they have with them. I think some dilligent maintenance will help here and the extremely long tie rods seem like they put a lot of load on the bushings and tie rod mounting bolts. I think my set-up will have less stress. Also found out that Audi mid-90's 100's and s4's have a center steer. Steve

joe_padavano 04-22-2013 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbutler (Post 1669195)
I found a center take off, front steer rack. A tip on the forum somewhere led me to it. They are on Dodge Intrepids and other models. Looks like it will work great. Then I searched a little and you would not believe the problems they have with them. I think some dilligent maintenance will help here and the extremely long tie rods seem like they put a lot of load on the bushings and tie rod mounting bolts. I think my set-up will have less stress. Also found out that Audi mid-90's 100's and s4's have a center steer. Steve

Just out of curiosity, how are you selecting and locating the inboard tie rod end pivot points on the rack to avoid bump steer with all this mixing and matching?

sbutler 04-22-2013 10:10 PM

Joe. I cut the tie rod mounting section from the center link and re-installed it on the tie rods. This will let me keep the tie rod orientation the same as stock. When I get the rack located with new brackets I'll make a simple bracket that will bolt to the rack as the stock tie rods did and it will extend back to the stock tie rod section and be welded there, hopefully giving me better than stock steering. If you see problems with this please interject. Would really like to get this part wrapped up so I can proceed with the build. Thanks, Steve

sbutler 04-22-2013 10:12 PM

Joe, on the wiki rack article the bracket they made to hook up to the stock steering will be the same basic design that I will try to use except I think mine will be more simple. Steve

warpedredneck 04-23-2013 08:42 PM

could you not use a rack from a stock car?
supplier such as sweet? for example

sbutler 04-23-2013 09:12 PM

Not into stock cars so I might have missed something. Will check into it. Thanks, Steve

jayd_2 04-30-2013 03:05 AM

I put a '37 dodge pickup on an S10 frame, had to shorten the frame horns so much that I could not use a GM power or manual box. I used a rack from 1994 Dodge Intrepid, its a center mount style rack so the tie rods are plenty long so there's no problem with bump steer. I used 16mm & 18mm o-ring to AN6 adapters from Speedway to plumb it up, used a GM pump. It's mounted in front of the cross member and has hiems in the center with stock S10 tie rod ends. I also used a flow reducer that drops the pump flow from 3GPM to 2GPM. Had to use block hugger headers to get the steering shaft clearance. Can post some pics if you need to see the setup.

sbutler 04-30-2013 08:19 PM

jayd, pics would be appreciated. Still working this out. Thanks, Steve


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