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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2004, 07:57 AM
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when you say air bubbles, what you mean is there should not be any bubbles at all in the coolant? even from the heat in the radiator? or should the bubbles from a bad head gasket be really bubbling up?

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2004, 09:51 AM
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Are you sure there's no air in your cooling system?

100% coolant is really bad if you use it for a long time. The additives to the coolant are too much for 100% coolant and requires water to remain in suspension. If the additives come out of suspension, the additives will gel and clog things.

Also there is less cooling capacity with 100
% coolant.

Anyways, if there is air in your system and you are unable to remove it, the water pump may be spinning in the air and not pumping the water around. Check to make sure that your radiator is getting hot when your engine is hot. Also, make sure that your heater is blowing hot air when your engine is hot. If your radiator and/or heater are not getting hot there is a problem with something being clogged or there is air in the system.

I agree with 2-manytoyzs, "it sounds like an efficiency problem"

Just make sure that your radiator and heater are getting hot first before you continue. That'll at least rule out the air in the system or clogged something possibilities.
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Old 08-26-2004, 10:35 AM
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You asked about the water pump direction, yours turns counter clock wise as do all 5.0L ford motors that have a serpentine belt. but thats not going to help you, because if you have the older style water pump counter clock wise is backwards and the only way to know is by taking off the water pump and looking at direction of the vanes.

Take off your radiator cap, and watch the water flow. Standing in front of your car looking into the rad your coolent flow should be from passanger side to drivers side. If you have no flow or flowing backwards then I would guess your pump is wrong. If your flow is correct then I still think you have a blow head gasket, i have never been able to run a power adder without o-ringing.

Do be CAREFUL! because your most likely not going to find water in the oil when blow a head gasket, so it makes it harder to know on a ford. When they blow, they like to blow out between the cylinders and can often warp the block or heads. If you warp the block I dont care how much you mill or o-ring your heads you will never get it to seal with out decking the block.


Ben
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Old 08-26-2004, 11:42 AM
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ok, i checked and my water pump is definitely turning in the right direction. also my heater is blowing hot and my radiator is hot. as far as the head gaskets...i was told my a mechanic that they were bad, so i took the time(and boy i mean time)and changed them. well when i got down to the supposedly bad ones, they weren't bad. looked damn good. but they are brand new, installed and torqued correctly. so now what? i still need help!!
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Old 08-26-2004, 12:31 PM
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As you sound new to all this, keep in mind that a bad head gasket doesnt mean its going to look like it was ripped apart or have chunks missing. Alot of times they are pretty close to what a regular gasket is going to look like and all in one piece. Check your old gasket for burn marks or a darker patch with a slight carbon build up. These are going probably be next to a water jacket or in between two cylinders. Also since you had the heads off you should of checked them for being warped. If your heads are warped putting new gaskets on is not going to fix your problem. Your also running a blower you should of o-ringed them. Im also hoping you didnt buy those crappy autozone or discount auto head gaskets, there not worth two dead flys. Also another thing to think about while im at it, are you using stock head bolts?

Ben
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2004, 01:30 PM
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ok the head gasket that i took off i brought to a shop and they said it looked fine to them, as far as the heads, they are brand new. i figured since I had the engine torn apart, i would go ahead and get some fresh heads for them. trick flow heads, and also the head gaskets were trick flow's high performance type. but they are not o-ringed. i am wishing now that i would have had that done. i had it in the shop a week ago for a spring change. i had my mechanic check out the cooling system, he said the head gaskets were fine. i specifically asked about them because i was worried about doing it all over again. he did not have time to go through the entire system as i was ready to get my car back and begin my own troubleshooting, to save some cash. and for my head bolts i took almost 45 minutes going through the proper torque sequence recommended by trick flow. i am using arp studs and i also sealed the lower head bolts. this may be far-fetched but i thought about this. what if i were to start my car and let the temp start climbing. after the thermostat opens and the temp keeps on climbing (here goes don't laugh)how about I take a yard blower (you know the one used to clean off your driveway) and aim it directly at the front of my car and see if this cools it off any. and if by some chance it does, would that mean that my fan is the problem? help! hot car in Louisiana
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2004, 01:43 PM
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Sorry I just saw where you said your running 10psi boost I didnt see it before. Im going to make it easy for you to understand

YOU-HAVE-TO-BE-O-RINGED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You will keep blowing head gaskets with out it.

I have had quite a few Ford blower motors, all were 6-71's but happen to be running at 10psi. I can tell you at 10psi and 8.7:1 compression your engine is the same as running 14:1

Last edited by brainsboy; 08-26-2004 at 02:00 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2004, 05:37 PM
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I've seen the effects of running straight antifreeze in an engine. You need to combine the mixture, as someone said, to maintain heat absorption but also to maintain a balanced pH level. I remember at a GM dealership when one of my fellow mechanics was working on his race car after hours. He ran straight antifreeze because he did'nt have to pay for it of course. He called me over, wide eyed and said 'take a look at this' - the freeze plugs had corroded through within a 6 month period of installation!
I'll just add a few observations from the what I've read about your application. The fact that the engine actually cools off a bit when the car's driving suggests that there's inadequate air flow from those fans. Also, your 3 core radiator would probably be tested to the max since you've increased the engine's output dramatically. So I hope your radiator has a high pressure cap to increase its efficiency. If it does, take it to a mechanic to test the cap as most caps leak and are ineffective.
I seen several Ford v8's where there's been a surge tank fitted to keep the air out of the cooling system by allowing the air to rise into the tank. From what I've heard, they usually help a lot, specially if the radiator's not higher than the engine.
You've replaced the head gaskets, but did you test for any leakage to confirm a leak prior to removal? Had you done the test like I stated in a previous post, there would not have been any guess work. Now your back to square one as the original leak may have been a cracked head all along. I keep repeating myself with this subject, but only because I know how easy and effective this method is. To test for a head gasket type leak you need to fill the radiator up with water to the filler neck and then squeeze the top radiator hose several times until all the air is purged through the neck. Disable the ignition and crank over the engine with the starter - if the water level rises whilst cranking then your engine's leaking compression into the cooling system. I went into more detail in a recent post where someone had milky oil in their engine. Hope this helps, Rob.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2004, 08:56 PM
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Don't forget to burp the cooling system before you cap it. fords a notorioous for trapped ait but I do this on every car I have the cooling system drained on. Start the engine with the cap off and warm it up until the thermostat opens, then with a jug of coolant in one hand take your other hand and run it up to 2500 or so for abour 20 seconds, top it all the way off and put the cap on before slowing the engine down Some engines will push half the coolant back out the fill spout before they burp.
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Old 08-26-2004, 09:29 PM
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My roommate has a 93 Trans-am and we found that the only way to get the air out of the system was to fill it up, then put the cap on, then warm it up a bit, then loosen the top radiator hose by the thermostat to let all the pressure out. Then with no pressure, keep filling the radiator as the engine cools.

Without doing this, there was no way to get the water pump to pump any coolant.

After doing that we kept a close eye on the overflow tank and kept filling it to the full mark every time the engine was cool.

But if your radiator is getting hot and your heater is getting hot, then this is not the problem. The water is definitely circulating. Also, if you had a blown head gasket you'd most likely keep getting more air into your cooling system over and over and possibly you'd push coolant out of your overflow tank all the time.

I'm pretty confident that you just have a cooling capacity problem.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2004, 10:29 PM
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I'm having a similar problem with my 67 nova(350sbc).It keeps getting too hot.I just changed the thermostat,coolant.It goes to 195 then jumps up to 230 real quick(5-10 minutes of city driving).I do not have a coolant overflow tank.My overflow runs straight to the ground.Can someone explain to me how an overflow tank works.I would also like to know more about burping my system.I didn't do that when I changed the fluid.Please help.thanks bm
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2004, 01:45 AM
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To the caped crusader. I think your car has an airflow problem. If it does not overheat during normal driving, which would include the occasional full throttle blast up a hill etc, then it would be safe to say that the radiator's OK but just suffering from lack of air flow at low car speeds. What fan set up you running mate? A coolant overflow bottle/recovery bottle/expansion tank (choose any of those names) is there to store the radiator coolant overflow that occurs when the coolant expands due to heat build up. How much coolant loss depends on several factors like engine power output, radiator capacity, airflow, coolant volume and cap pressure. But one thing's for certain, if you fill a radiator (right up to the neck) that does not have an overflow bottle you will loose one to two inches of coolant as soon as the engine gets hot and builds up pressure. That's normal, and it's also the result of the radiator cap doing its job as it has a rubber seal and a spring to release the pressure when it builds up to the preset rating that's marked on the cap. It also has a vacuum valve to allow atmospheric pressure (air) to return back into the cooling system when the coolant contracts as it cools down. If there was no vacuum valve then vacuum would build up when cold and the radiator hoses will collapse due to the atmospheric pressure being greater than the pressure inside. The valve is that small metal plate that sits proud on the rubber seal and is about 1/2" diameter. Whenever you remove the cap, lift the valve and clean the valve and seat under running tap water as it's the prime area for pressure loss. If you want to run an overflow bottle then you must use a dedicated cap for such a set up. They have a large seal to seal the top perimeter of the filler neck to prevent entry of air during the cool down stage. With that part sealed, the low coolant pressure in the radiator created during cool down stage will allow the atmosphere to literally push the coolant from the overflow bottle into the radiator (in layman's terms, the radiator sucks the water in). An ideal overflow bottle should hold 2 to four liters of coolant. It should also have a vented cap and the hose should reach the bottom and should be cut on an angle. Don't have the bottle sitting too low as it may reduce the coolant recovery effectiveness. Fill the bottle roughly just past half way when it's cold and ensure the radiator's fully topped up. The extra volume left in the bottle allows for overflow and stops coolant from being lost for good.
Burping or purging your engine of air is more critical on some models than others. If the engine's water pockets are lower than the radiator then the system will expel the air to the radiator neck by itself. Once the engine's brought up to temperature the thermostat opens and the newly filled coolant will chase the engine's pockets and more coolant will be needed.
If there's doubt about the radiator height, then you can loosen a heater hose (like one said) to burp the air as you fill. Some cars have bleeders which are great. But if you artificially raise the coolant height by fitting a sight glass to the filler neck then the air will be forced out of the motor when you loosen a hose or bleeder or when you squeeze the hoses to pump the air out. My last post mentioned this sight glass. I'll organize a pic for you guys. Do not dismiss my offer of help on this one. I might be from down under, but it gets hot here too!
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2004, 05:30 AM
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ok club 327, you must have missed an erlier post where I stated that i took the first set of heads off and replaced them with a NEW set, and I still have the same problem. yesterday evening, i checked the oil and it was 100% oil, no milky substance whatsoever, checked the exhaust pipes, smoke was black as night, while doing this I had the cap pulled on the radiator and there was no bubbles in it. another thing is this. i was told that if your water pump is putting out correctly, then you should not be able to squeeze the radiator hose and stop its flow. well on my car, at idle i can squeeze the upper hose and damn near stop flow, as a matter of fact it feels as if the flow isn't that strong at all. but when i look in the radiator, it is definitely water flowing through it.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2004, 06:00 AM
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sorry, i didn't notice u had replaced the heads. I just want to correct something here. When initially i spoke of a surge tank, i did not mean an overflow bottle. As an overflow bottle is a catch and recover system for excess coolant overflow, a surge tank is purely to raise the coolant level to keep air out of the engine. It's also fully pressurized, IE, it has its own supply of reinforced heater type hoses and a pressure cap. Totally different from an overflow bottle. Surge tanks are the way to go for many Hi Po v8's, not just for the expulsion of air but cause of the added coolant volume. That theory about water pumps. The water pump in your stang is a conventional non-positive displacement pump, meaning water can become stationary even though the water pump's churning. So that's normal when you clamp the hose and the water stops flowing. If it was a positive displacement pump, then any kind of obstruction would cause a massage rupture to the radiator or hose, etc.
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Old 08-27-2004, 06:29 AM
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man this car is driving me insane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so would or could getting a surge tank help my heating issues? and also i think at home I do have a 180* thermostat. should i change that instead of using my current 180*?
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