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Old 03-05-2005, 04:45 PM
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Capturing water for painting

Hey gents I have a 5 hp Craftsman AC
and run a Northern filter right past the Barometric switch and Regulator at the compressor and am running about 75' of 3/8
hose.
I was using a 5" grinder, and a 6 1/2" DA sander today
and it was spitting water through the tools
what else can I do to stop water before Priming and Painting?

Does somebody made a Kick Butt Cyclone separator or anything that will drop all the water out?

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Old 03-05-2005, 05:01 PM
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separator location

Put the water separator out at the end of the line..this gives the air a chance to cool before it hits the air/water separator and works better that way..I use a 100 ft of main line from the air compressor to air water separator which is on a little stand I made..then I have a 25 foot whip for my airtools and spray gun..

Works for me

OMT
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Old 03-05-2005, 05:21 PM
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I was thinking of running the second separator about 6' before the gun and fasten it to a belt or is this a bad Idea
also if I increase the hose size from 3/8" to 1/2" will that improve tool performance?

I do like the Stand Idea though I have a heavy duty Axle Stand that I could attach a separator to fairly easily
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Old 03-05-2005, 06:28 PM
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I'll tell you right now what your problem is, the filter is too close to the compressor. The compressor creates HOT air, the air needs distance to cool, THAT is how the filter can filter the moisture out, it needs to be in larger droplets. The hotter the air the smaller the droplets.

Loose that 75 ft of hose, hose is HORRIBLE for your air supply, it retains heat. What you want is 25 ft MININUM of 3/4" galvanized metal pipe, THEN the filter, then the SHORTEST hose you can use, usually 25' is plenty. That hose should be 3/8" for the most efficient system. Don't go the cheap route with PVC, it too retains heat. You want that air as cool as possible by the time it gets to the filter.

Mount the pipe up on the wall, NOT at the ceiling (it is hotter there), and NOT directly to the wall. Put the pipe out on wood 2x4 blocks. This allows air movement around it to keep the pipe cool, thus cooling the air in the pipe. Put the pipe at a slight angle back towards the compressor so the moisture will drain back into it. NEVER run the pipe up and down and up like or the low spot will collect water.

The following is a diagram I used in my garage, worked like a charm. However, I only have the one outlet at the end. It is 35ft to that outlet with the filter mounted there. I used the same up and down pipe like the first on on the diagram. This keeps most of the water from going up (it is heavier than the air) and down to your filter so it doesn't have to work as hard. You can't expect the filter to filter out gallons of water. You want it to do as little as needed. I notice that the diagram has no "flex" in the pipe at the compressor. If the pipe is not connected solid to the wall for a distance to allow movment there is no need for the flex. I lucked out and a buddy of mine came up with a 1' long 1" braided stainless steel line off of an airplane. I used that as a flex because of where the compressor was mounted I had little room to allow the pipe it's freedom.

Last edited by MARTINSR; 03-05-2005 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 03-05-2005, 08:49 PM
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Martinsr

As Usual you give the Killer answer
I will have to look at the garage to see how that will layout.
but it would fix the problem
what is the Can looking thingie in the drawing?
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Old 03-05-2005, 09:05 PM
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What "can thingie" are you talking about? On the left is the compressor, the middle is a three stage filter (similar to Sharpes model 6760 see below) and the right is a gun.

I have a simple model 6710 in my setup with great success. However different climates my require more. I know when I was back in Arkansas this past summer I thought many times how hard it must be to paint in that high humitity.
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Old 03-05-2005, 10:24 PM
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The Sharps separator was what I was asking about
I live on the Texas Gulf Coast and it gets durn humid here
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Old 03-06-2005, 01:55 AM
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what i will start doing tommaro

is good
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Old 03-06-2005, 06:17 AM
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Compressor water problems

I think Martinsr is the best at answering paint problems. But I believe that the diagram for trapping the condinsation is not correct. I have used a similar system for many years from a diagram I got from Ingersol Rand . The main difference is the main pipe slopes away from the compressor so the water will flow to the drain on the end down pipe , not back to the compressor.
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Old 03-06-2005, 06:51 AM
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I have my pipe routed very similar to what Martinsr suggests and it works just fine, you do need to drain the compressor on a regular basis. The intercooler idea mentioned looks like it may reduce the condensation before the air enters the tank which would be a big plus but I can't quite understand the blowoff valve deal- the outlet from the water seperator seems to run up to the electrical pressure switch? ************************************************** ************************************************** ****************Also if anyone is considering this do not weld on your tank as shown in the photos with the tank pressurized- a fella died in my area awhile back when he had the tank explode on him from the heat expansion during welding. Make sure your tank has an open port when welding. Bob
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Old 03-06-2005, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhenery
I think Martinsr is the best at answering paint problems. But I believe that the diagram for trapping the condinsation is not correct. I have used a similar system for many years from a diagram I got from Ingersol Rand . The main difference is the main pipe slopes away from the compressor so the water will flow to the drain on the end down pipe , not back to the compressor.

The diagram is not mine, it is Sharpes. I don't think it matters much which way it goes. However, think about this; the water droplets are heavier than the the rest of the air, why try to "push" them all to the other end of the system (even down hill) when they "want" to stay on the compressor side of the system anyway? Just a thought from a non-engineer type.


Bob, very good warning, that goes for ANYTHING pressurized. There was a guy here in town a few years ago who was welding a crack in a big diesel rigs rim. You guested it, the bead of the rim blew off and took the top of his head with it.
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Old 03-06-2005, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry
I think Martins is the best at answering paint problems. But I believe that the diagram for trapping the condensation is not correct. I have used a similar system for many years from a diagram I got from Ingersoll Rand . The main difference is the main pipe slopes away from the compressor so the water will flow to the drain on the end down pipe , not back to the compressor.
************************************************** ***
As an non engineer, I don't have a clue!!
But I have seen a number of paint gun and compressor companies recommend that the water run back to the compressor and then drained on a daily basis or handled with an automatic compressor drain.
I have also herd other compressor companies that its best to drain water away from compressor. I would tend to believe people like Sharpe would have the right idea since that is their total business.
I do have mine draining in to compressor, I guess theory is keep water separated from air as far from end as possible.
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Old 03-06-2005, 03:08 PM
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water

I had a simular problem with water in a body shop i owned.I took and old drive shaft(the larger the better) put a fitting half way up for air in then one at the top for air out. then i put a water valve at the bottom so i could drain the thing. It worked better than any water seperator i've ever brought.
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Old 03-06-2005, 05:09 PM
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Cpvc ?

Would schedule 80 CPVC pipe work or would it retain too much heat
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Old 03-06-2005, 07:12 PM
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water in air

I have a physlically very large air compressor that came from a gas station, with the included 8 ft x 3 ft tank. This collects a lot of water. I piped it through the air tank from a smaller compressor I used to have, that wore out. The piping goes up to the 10 ft level, slopes back toward the compressor tank, and goes about 15 ft to the wall, where it goes down to a drain. Off the side of the drain line, the air goes to 2 filter/driers. The hose connection goes out the top of the T on piping set up after my regulator. I have a drip leg that goes out the bottom of the T. I use a small moisture catcher at the gun. I drain the tanks every time I stop to fill a gun, or change tools or something. I get more water out of the second small tank than the first big one. I do not get water out of the moisture trap at the gun. I think the trick is to get your air to stop long enough to get to room temp, and then to condenser and leave its moisture. It also helps a lot to drain what ever has been collected, too. Every time you reduce the pressure on your air, it reduces the amount of moisture that will stay vaporized. When the air goes out the nozzle of your spray gun, it finishes condensing any water left in there. Refrigeration works this way--in a vacuum, the refrigerant will "boil" at a very low temp, so you can take the latent heat of vaporization out of a freezer, and then compress the refrigerant so that it can give up its latent heat of vaporization to 100 degree air, and become a liquid again at a high pressure.
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