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Old 12-14-2003, 01:39 PM
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Car Audio Question

hi, i just have a question about car audio, i would like to buy a reciever and it is 23.2watts x4 and 52.2watts max power, i would like to buy some speakers and i would like to know how to figure out what i have to look for with max power and RMS, so if you could help me please do,, and also would a 2channel 1000w, run 2 subs with 300watts rms and 600watts max, and how good will it sound.

thanks alot

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Old 12-14-2003, 01:43 PM
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I have the same question, basiclly.

I bought a CD player for the wifes car for Xmas. 4X40 watts. What do I want for speakers. I am 51 years old, I don't need it to "Thump" itself off the road.
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Old 12-14-2003, 04:36 PM
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Don't worry about the max watt's handing power. Get speekers with the same rms watts as your stereo.
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Old 12-14-2003, 04:42 PM
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Thanks as Lot, Know what do i do if i want to install a amp to my Front and Rear Speakers. or should i even worry about that,, i just want a car stereo that will sound good and that i can bump. also how loud can my sistem go if i have the same watts in my speakers as the headunit.
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Old 12-14-2003, 05:41 PM
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There are lots of ways to do this incorrectly. Unless you have access to an audio engineer, log onto Crutchfield.com. These guys are audio people with a great website and very good prices. You can compare products on their website. They also have a toll-free advice number-1-800-653-0098. Good luck.
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Old 12-15-2003, 03:57 AM
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The first thing when looking for quality sound, would be buying a quality head unit. You will be spending quite a bit to get actual quality.


1000w amp .. First does the amp have a crossover for subs? (frequency cut off, you don't want to play over 90hz on subs (thats just a general range, not specific)) .. Most sub amps have an adjustable pot for frequency cutoff. That amp would most likely work perfectly fine for powering two subs.

You can try wiring the amp up, and see how it powers them and how it sounds. You cannot really damage subs except for severly underpowering, playing the wrong frequency range, and distortion. I suggest using 4 guage wire, but its all dependant on how much wattage the amp really uses, and how far away it is from the battery.

As for the 23.2x4w head unit .. If you're going to be running two subs, with 1000w, I'm going to assume they're 10"+ which will drown out the mid/high only running low wattage. If you're going to being buying a new headunit, and speakers, you might as well not cheap out. I personally cannot stand cheap sounding audio in a car. Maybe its after having a 5.1 home theatre you want it all the time

Give me some more specific questions and price ranges and I can help you out some more. I love car audio as much as I love hot rodding
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Old 12-15-2003, 08:27 AM
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Answer to question

hey brad, thanks for the help, but the Headunit is a kenwood KDC-MPV6022 here are all the features, you will understand them better then me:

KEY FEATURES
- Dual-Zone Audio Control
- Flip-Down Removable Faceplate with Carrying Case
- High-Pass and Low-Pass Electronic Crossovers
- Kenwood Music Keg Ready
- Maximum Output Power: 50 Watts x 4
- Plays MP3-Encoded CD-Rs and Conventional CDs, CD-Rs, and CD-RWs
- Preouts: Front, Rear
- Rotary Encoder Volume Control
- Selectable Rear/Non-Fading Preout
- SIRIUS Satellite Ready
- System Q Sound Control
- LCD Display: Color Shock Variable Color

GENERAL FEATURES
- Clock
- Display Contrast Adjustment
- Display Dimmer
- Display Readout: 5 x 7 12-Character Dot Matrix
- Finish: Silver/Gray
- Flip-Down Removable Faceplate with Carrying Case
- Iso-Mount Capability for Japanese Vehicles
- Rotary Encoder Volume Control
- Sub Illumination: Blue
- Illuminated Function Buttons: Green & Red (Selectable)
- LCD Display: Color Shock Variable Color
- Touch-Tone Buttons: Defeatable

POWER RATINGS
- Full Bandwidth Power (less than 1%% THD): 22 Watts x 4
- Maximum Output Power: 50 Watts x 4

AUDIO FEATURES
- Attenuator with Smooth Volume Return
- Auxiliary Input
- Dual-Zone Audio Control
- Electronic Audio Control (Volume, Balance, Fader)
- Front/Rear Fader
- High-Pass Electronic Crossover: 100/125/170Hz/Through, 12dB/oct
- Loudness Control
- Low-Pass Electronic Crossover: 50/80/120Hz/Through, 12dB/oct
- Preouts: Front, Rear
- Selectable Rear/Non-Fading Preout
- Source Tone Memory
- System Q Sound Control: with User Memory
- Tone Controls: Bass, Midrange, Treble

COMPACT DISC FEATURES
- 0-Bit Mute
- CD Text
- Digital Filter: 8-Times Oversampling
- Digital Optimum Servo Control
- Digital to Analog Converter: Integrated Quad 1-Bit
- Intro Scan
- Play/Pause
- Plays MP3-Encoded CD-Rs and Conventional CDs, CD-Rs, and CD-RWs
- Precision Digital Timing (DPAC)
- Random Play
- Repeat Play: Track, Disc

AMPLIFIER FEATURES
- MOSFET Power Amplifier IC

CHANGER CONTROL FEATURES
- CD Text Display
- Changer Control: 2, or 1 + Aux (with KCA-S210A or Compatible Changer)
- Disc Name Preset Play
- Disc Naming
- Kenwood Music Keg Ready
- Random Play: Disc, Magazine
- Repeat Play
- Scan: Track, Disc

TUNER FEATURES
- Automatic Memory Entry
- HD Radio Ready
- High-Speed Multipath Control (CRSC) with ANRC
- Kenwood CR-2 Advanced Tuner
- Seek Tuning
- SIRIUS Satellite Ready
- Station Presets: 24 (18FM, 6 AM)

I'am also looking at a Kenwood Amp to power some subs the model is KAC-X810D: here are it's features

POWER RATINGS
- Maximum Output Power: 1600 Watts x 1
- Power Output at 2 Ohms, at 12V (1kHz, 0.5% THD): 600 Watts x 1
- Power Output at 2 Ohms, at 14.4V (1kHz, 0.5% THD): 800 Watts x 1
- Power Output at 4 Ohms, at 12V (20Hz-20kHz, 0.05% THD): 300 Watts x 1
- Power Output at 4 Ohms, at 14.4V (20Hz-20kHz, 0.05% THD): 400 Watts x 1

AUDIO FEATURES
- B.M.S. (Bass Management System): Off/+6dB/+12dB/+18dB
- B.M.S. Downshift™: -30%, with Compatible Head Unit
- B.M.S. Head Unit Interface: with Compatible Head Unit
- Balanced Isolation Circuit
- Class D Operation
- Glass Epoxy Printed Circuit Board
- Phase Switch: 0 Degrees/180 Degrees, Selectable
- Quiet Turn-On
- RCA Audio Inputs: Gold-Plated
- RCA Line Outputs: Gold-Plated
- Selectable Infrasonic Filter: Off/15/25Hz, 24dB per Octave
- Speaker Connectors: Gold-Plated, Large Screw-Type
- Speaker Relay Protection
- Variable Band Reject Filter: 40Hz - 200Hz, -6dB/-12dB (Selectable)
- Variable Low-Pass Electronic Crossover: 50Hz - 200Hz, 24dB per Octave

POWER SUPPLY FEATURES
- 1-Ohm Stable
- Copper-Shielded EE Core Transformer
- Glass Epoxy Printed Circuit Board
- Large Secondary Capacitors: 3
- Large Toroidal Noise Suppression Filter
- Low Voltage Warning with Memory
- Microprocessor-Controlled Operation
- Parallel MOSFET Output Transistors
- Power Input Terminals: Gold-Plated, Large Screw-Type
- Power MOSFET Switching Power Supply
- Power Supply Primary Stage Buss Bars
- Status Indicator: Variable Color LED, with Selectable Colo

So for the Front and rear speakers what RMS should i get, i want to just run them from the headunit, and will this amp be okay for the Subs i want the are 12inch Kenwood KFC-XW1205DB and here are the features for that:

SPEAKER FEATURES
- Bumped Yoke
- Extended Pole Piece: Sprial-Vented
- Frame: 1.2mm Thick Steel
- Frequency Response: 20Hz - 600Hz
- Impedance: 4 ohms
- Magnet Weight: 52.9 oz
- One-Piece Cone Design
- One-Piece Rubber Surround and Gasket: Extra-Wide
- PBO Advanced Fiber Cone: 12" Mirco-Weave Silver, Tornado-Type
- Power Handling: 1200 Watts
- Sensitivity: 93dB
- Speaker Connectors: Gold-Plated, 2-Way SB-Type

THIELE-SMALL PARAMETERS
- DC Resistance (Re): 3.2 ohms
- Electrical Q Factor (Qes): 0.61
- Force Factor (Bl): 9.44Tm
- Mechanical Q Factor (Qms): 6.21
- Moving Mass (Mms): 3.63 oz
- Peak Excursion (Xmax): 9mm
- Resonant Frequency (Fs): 25Hz
- Total Q Factor (Qts): 0.55
- Voice Coil Diameter (d): 2-9/16"
- Volume Acoustic Compliance (Vas): 4.198 cu. ft./119 liters

Thanks A Lot and sorry about all the reading, it's just that you know alot more then me when it comes to car audio..
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Old 12-17-2003, 03:21 PM
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HEY THUG: I had a similar problem. I had a cheap low power cassette AM/FM radio mounted in dash. Cheap ( $100.00) speakers mounted in rear window. I added a remote CD player in trunk. PROBLEM: had to play old radio volume all the way just to hear quility CD's which caused distortion. SOLUTION: I bought JVC amplifier at Wal Mart for about $ 60.00 and installed it between radio and speakers.....worked great...Sometimes the solution is very simple. GOOD LUCK...DAVE
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Old 12-17-2003, 03:47 PM
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I am going to address your amp and subs for a sec. Amp ratings are almost always higher than you are ever going to be able to get them to run. Kenwood is not a great brand, but it is pretty good for the price. As for power supply to an amp that big...If you are planning on putting out over 500 watts (which I believe you are) I suggest running at least 2 guage wire if not 0. 4 gauge will only support up to 500 watts safely. I would also recommend you run a capacitor for better performance. A 1 farad cap should be plenty.
Now, the way you wire your subs up will make a lot of difference too. There are two ways you can do it. You can either run your subs in parallel or series configurations. In series you will probably get 200 watts max out of that amp. If you run them in parallel you should be able to get 600 to 800 watts theoretically from your amp. Parallel is runnin the positive off of the amp to a positive on one sub then to the positive on the other sub. Same with the negative.
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Old 12-17-2003, 10:42 PM
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Here's what worked out great for me -- your speakers should be twice the watts (rms) as your stereo. I went by this and I can crank the bass, treble and volume full blast, and NO distortion.

For example, if your stereo puts out 20 watts per channel, you want 40 watt rms (or more) speakers ... notice that's rms, not what's advertised on the box! _ I wound up buying Sony Xplod Speakers Model xs-W1620 -- on the box, it says 160 watts, but the true rms rating (found in the brochure specs) is 50 watts -- see what I mean?

Alan
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Old 12-22-2003, 01:30 AM
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Reply to cheezbay

I am going to address your amp and subs for a sec. Amp ratings are almost always higher than you are ever going to be able to get them to run.

(Most quality companies actually underate their amps)

Kenwood is not a great brand, but it is pretty good for the price.

(Kenwood makes some really nice gear. Their HU are their cream. I'm not a big fan of their amp)

As for power supply to an amp that big...If you are planning on putting out over 500 watts (which I believe you are) I suggest running at least 2 guage wire if not 0. 4 gauge will only support up to 500 watts safely.

(The amp you buy will usually tell you what size power/ground wire to use. I always use 4g wire, but 8g will support 500w with no problem)

I would also recommend you run a capacitor for better performance. A 1 farad cap should be plenty.

(I usually say 1 farad per 1000w)

Now, the way you wire your subs up will make a lot of difference too. There are two ways you can do it. You can either run your subs in parallel or series configurations. In series you will probably get 200 watts max out of that amp. If you run them in parallel you should be able to get 600 to 800 watts theoretically from your amp. Parallel is runnin the positive off of the amp to a positive on one sub then to the positive on the other sub. Same with the negative.

(As far as wiring your subs....wire them to get the max out of your amp without damaging the amp. That's why it is important to match your amps and subs buy power and ohm)

I didn't post this reply to bust any balls or come off as a know it all, but if I can help clear somethings up I would like to.
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Old 12-22-2003, 02:34 AM
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Re: Answer to question

Thuggishruggish3000 [/i]
The Headunit is a kenwood KDC-MPV6022

(Before you settle in on that HU you may want to take a look the Pioneer deh-p6500, not only is it a little less it also has 3 sets of pre amp out puts. It too is 22w RMS.)

I'am also looking at a Kenwood Amp to power some subs the model is KAC-X810D

(Here are the power ratings that I found on Crutchfield. The amp seems to have good power, but I would have to ask how much would you be paying for it because I'm sure there are some better amps out there for less.)
400 watts RMS x 1 at 4 ohms
800 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms
1,000 watts RMS x 1 at 1 ohm


So for the Front and rear speakers what RMS should i get, i want to just run them from the headunit

(If you have 12" subs and a sub amp you might as well spring for a decent 4ch amp. It will sound so much better because your subs willn't drown them out.)

the Subs i want are 12inch Kenwood KFC-XW1205DB

(Here are the ratings I found on the subs. They are 4 ohm svc so you will wire them at 2 ohm. At 2 ohm the amp puts out 800w RMS. Devide that between the 2 subs you have and thats 400w per sub RMS. I am not sure I would go that route.)
Peak Power Handling 1200w
RMS Power Range 25-300w
Impedance ( Ohms ) 4

Good Luck.

What car do you have? How much do you plan on spending for your gear?
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Old 12-22-2003, 08:21 AM
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Hey ChevyTuff...I don't know if you have been on the car audio scene for too long or done many installs, but I have. First, in theory, you should be able to get the output the manufacturer says the amp will do. In the real world, you will probably never achieve this. Kenwood is low end car audio. You can't argue that. I would worry running 8 guage to a 500 watt amp. That is just a little scary and it won't allow the amp to reach its full potential. If you would have read what I said about the capacitor you would see that I am correct. Yes 1 farad for every 100 watts or .5 for every 500watts. So if he is running over 500...something like 800...he should go ahead and run a 1 farad cap. Running the subs in parallel is the way to get the most power out of the amp and it drops the amp down to a better ohm load. 2 ohms to be exact allowing the amp to put out more power. You should actualy try to understand what I write before you decide to prove me wrong.
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Old 12-22-2003, 12:39 PM
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As I said I was not trying to prove you wrong. I imagine I have been in car audio just as long if not longer than you. I do plenty of installs too.

I stand by my statement that the makers of hi-end car audio amps underate their amps. Don't buy that then check a few birth sheets.

As far as Kenwood being low end car audio again as I said Kenwood makes nice HU and I am not a big fan of their amps.

As far as 8g to a 500w amp that is done all day every day at many shops. With no problems.

As far as the cap "issue". I said 1 fared for every 1000w. Fact is that you don't have to add a cap to this particular install.

You do know that if he goes with that amp and set of subs and wires the subs in parallel then the amp will see 2ohms. The amp is 800 RMS x1@ 2ohm. The subs are 300w RMS.

So as I said I left the post to clear some things up not to bust your balls.

Chevy Tuff


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Hey ChevyTuff...I don't know if you have been on the car audio scene for too long or done many installs, but I have. First, in theory, you should be able to get the output the manufacturer says the amp will do. In the real world, you will probably never achieve this. Kenwood is low end car audio. You can't argue that. I would worry running 8 guage to a 500 watt amp. That is just a little scary and it won't allow the amp to reach its full potential. If you would have read what I said about the capacitor you would see that I am correct. Yes 1 farad for every 100 watts or .5 for every 500watts. So if he is running over 500...something like 800...he should go ahead and run a 1 farad cap. Running the subs in parallel is the way to get the most power out of the amp and it drops the amp down to a better ohm load. 2 ohms to be exact allowing the amp to put out more power. You should actualy try to understand what I write before you decide to prove me wrong. [/B][/QUOTE]
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Old 12-23-2003, 09:48 AM
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I will give the same advice to you as a few of my buddies gave me. If you're going to run subs, check your head unit to see if it has a Subwoofer control. Mine does. If you do, turn your bass to 0 and your treble as high as it will go. Some speakers that are made for your highs can't handle the constant bass.

I have in my 97 Cavalier Convertible:

Sony Xplode - 810 Head Unit: This head unit is one of the best ones priced under $200. It has high-pass, low-pass cutoff already in the head unit. I recommend this head unit to most people.

Sony Xplode - 2 4x6/2 6x9: I recommend Sony Xplode speakers for your highs. You will not get a good of a sound for the little you pay for the pair.

Rocford Fosgate - 2 8"/2 10" Subs: These subs are awesome.

Rodford Fosgate - 900w Amp: Me and a buddy got into an argument. He says Planet Audio 850D is better than my Fosgate 900w. I laughed. He had a buddy who had one of those hooked up to 2 Kicker 12" comp woofers. Blasted the bass and bass booster (amp). My buddy was like see, thiis hits way harder than your 4 subs. I walked to my car and plugged in my bass booster to the amp and blasted it. I was like what......his was more of a booming bass, but that's cause he had 2 KICKER 12" COMPETITION subs.

So to end this, for door speakers, dash speakers, etc. I recommend Sony Xplode. They aren't too expensive (Memphis) and they sound awesome.
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