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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerline
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
That's not an understatement, it's an INCORRECT statement. Several states do not issue titles to older cars. This is COMPLETELY legal. When I was growing up in Massachusetts, that state did not issue titles for cars more than 10 years old. There are a number of completely legal title service companies that will do this for you. Most other states are aware of this and will honor the paperwork. If a few states choose not to recognize this, that's a state problem and not a felony. Attempting to secure a title using this method to commit fraud (such as using it to title a stolen car) is ABSOLUTELY a crime, but the infraction is not the act of getting a title, it's the act of fraud.
I don't know where you studied law but feel free to represent a fraudulent title to your state's DMV and see how quick you wind up behind bars. Purchasing a title that belongs to another vehicle and then trying to register your car FRAUD, period end of story. That's what he asked about, not going through one of those shyster title companies. AND, most states won't allow titles obtained through them anymore because they consider it skirting the law. You pay your money and take your chances with one of those companies.

Bottom line is that EVERY STATE has procedures to title cars where the title has been lost or never existed. Following those procedures is the only foolproof way to do it.
Boy, discussing title laws is like arguing about religion with some people.

First, where in my quote above did I say ANYTHING about getting a fraudulent title? The way these title service companies work is that they register the car in a state that does not title older cars (yes, those DO still exist), then provide you with the paperwork to get a title in your state. These companies require documentation to demonstrate ownership and usually check stolen car records. It is not in their interest to be a public company doing things fraudulently or illegally. You may have also missed the part in my original quote where I pointed out that FRAUD is absolutely illegal.

I do see where the original question could be interpreted a few different ways. When he said "buy a title from a magazine", I took that to mean use a title service company, which I have seen advertised in Hemmings and other media (face it, not all the posts here use crystal clear terminology). In retrospect that may not be what he meant. I have also seen people trying to sell VIN plates and body data plates, with matching titles, and I agree that the water is much murkier there. By the way, I also agree with you that following the established procedures that all states have is by far the best way to go.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerline

I'm interested in why it took two years to get a title for your truck though. .
I bet it's because he live's in LA. This state is one of the hardest states to get a title the right way.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008, 02:17 PM
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I am not sure really why it took so long but i know I had to put adds in enough notice papers that my 50 dollar truck is now a 500 dollar truck. And i can say this much the rules change without notice. One minute they need this and the next time you call them they need something totally different. But i finally got it ......but it took forever. Tim
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008, 05:53 PM
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Titling a vehicle that has a past is one thing. How do you title a car that was built as a "kit"? Say, an outlaw frame, Crate motor, Downs body, etc. This is legally a "homebuilt", I think, and in CA I believe only 500 such registrations per year are allowed. And they all go the first day of the year that DMV is open.

Now, if you have just one original body part . . . perhaps you can claim to have "modified" an older car.

Anyone know how to handle these "kit" type cars?

Pat
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatM
Titling a vehicle that has a past is one thing. How do you title a car that was built as a "kit"? Say, an outlaw frame, Crate motor, Downs body, etc. This is legally a "homebuilt", I think, and in CA I believe only 500 such registrations per year are allowed. And they all go the first day of the year that DMV is open.

Now, if you have just one original body part . . . perhaps you can claim to have "modified" an older car.

Anyone know how to handle these "kit" type cars?

Pat
I'm not sure that's true. Boyd Coddington (RIP) and Chip Foose build kit cars all year long and get them titled. Boyd got in trouble once (it was alleged) for getting them titled as a 1932 for instance instead of a 2007. I think they found he was OK.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008, 07:16 PM
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You Americans do some weird stuff.................Why do certain states not title cars after a certain number of years??......Here, as long as a car is registered with the DOT (Dept of Transport), it has a Title or Ownership as we call it. If it is lost, serial numbers are used to get it replaced. I have a 51 and a 62....they came with the ownership or I wouldn't have bought them........I have never bought a car without an ownership....maybe, I have been lucky.

Why do you make it so difficult?
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatM
Titling a vehicle that has a past is one thing. How do you title a car that was built as a "kit"? Say, an outlaw frame, Crate motor, Downs body, etc. This is legally a "homebuilt", I think, and in CA I believe only 500 such registrations per year are allowed. And they all go the first day of the year that DMV is open.

Now, if you have just one original body part . . . perhaps you can claim to have "modified" an older car.

Anyone know how to handle these "kit" type cars?

Pat
Many states now have a Specialty Constructed Vehicle registration option. SEMA has been pushing this hard. The process varies from state-to-state, but it usually involves documentation of all the parts you've purchased. Typically the DMV or State Police will inspect the car and issue a VIN.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho62
You Americans do some weird stuff.................Why do certain states not title cars after a certain number of years??.
Unfortunately it comes down to state's rights vs. federal rights. Car registration and titling is a state responsibility and they get to set the rules. Most of these limitations on age for titles originated long before computers made record keeping easy. Imagine trying to store paper records of all these titles. Also, particularly in the rust belt, most cars didn't last ten years. That's changed in the last decade or so and I suspect that before too long the few remaining non-title states will close that loophole. The fact remains, however, that a lot of cars still on the road in these states (and others that have since changed) do not currently have titles. Titles are not federally mandated, the form and process varies from state-to-state, and states can choose when to issue them and when not.

Heck, it's only been within the last 10 years or so that there has been a database of traffic tickets that included data from all 50 states (and I'm not sure this is a good thing).
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2008, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman2333
I'm not sure that's true. Boyd Coddington (RIP) and Chip Foose build kit cars all year long and get them titled. Boyd got in trouble once (it was alleged) for getting them titled as a 1932 for instance instead of a 2007. I think they found he was OK.
Federally and in most states rebodying cars is a felony. "title games"
It falls under the "Ship of Thesesus" or "Thesesus Paradox" in the law. If every component gets replaced over a period of time, is the vehicle still the original vehicle? Probably.
If you replace them all at once, it is rebodying, that is illegal.

Buying a title to a vehicle that "no longer exists" and then applying that title to another vehicle is illegal everywhere.

Boyd was accused of conspiring to present custom made vehicles as old factory cars to avoid taxes and smog regulations.

Boyd pled guilty to multiple charges and paid a really heavy fine. He could have gone to jail.
That is easy to confirm on the net.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerline
Some, like Ohio for instance, don't. Sometimes its just a crap shoot.
I'm about to find out how Ohio's DMV will treat me on getting my '65 C-10's title.

Here's the short version of the story. Found this old truck in a field. Belongs to this old boy whom bought it along with a few other old cars at an estate sale. Previous owner of this truck passed on. Hasn't been registered in roughly 20 years. No titles for any of them, this guy just bought 'em for parts or things to look at in the field.

Fast forward to today, scrap prices are up and this field is getting easier to walk through. I am saving this '65 from the crusher. Hopefully it's paid off and the bank no longer has the title...

Shall be interesting.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdreex
I absolutely don't mind doing it the legal way either, but I was curious as to why whoever mentioned that 'buying' a title in the wiki would mention that as an option, and obviously since it's the 'easy way out', it led me to believe that obtaining a title for an otherwise untitled vehicle could be a lengthy process. Thanks for all the info though.
Remember, as valuable as Wikipedia articles are as a resource, they are started and added to by people like you and me, and parts of these articles are not necessarily definitive on the subject. It is possible for some of the information to be partially or totally wrong. Your best bet is to simply go to the DMV in your home state and ask how to go about titling your specific vehicle. Good luck.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoTFrenzel

Boyd was accused of conspiring to present custom made vehicles as old factory cars to avoid taxes and smog regulations.

Boyd pled guilty to multiple charges and paid a really heavy fine. He could have gone to jail.
That is easy to confirm on the net.
Last I knew he was OK on that. On reading the article, it sounds like he just got a slap on the wrist because the DMV knew the law was confusing. I might take a stroll down to DMV here in Phoenix and in Las Vegas to see whats up then add to the WIKI.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoTFrenzel
Federally and in most states rebodying cars is a felony. "title games"...
At the risk of opening this topic up again, rebodying a car is NOT against federal law IF the rebody is done as part of a repair and there is full documentation. The pertinent federal law is CFR 18USC25. Read it for yourself:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...Cite:+18USC511

Once again, the legal issue is commission of FRAUD. That's the same problem that Boyd had. It wasn't the titling that was the problem, it was the attempt to circumvent the emissions laws. Body shops (around here, anyway) regularly replace the cab from a truck and transfer the VIN tag. It's all done legally with full documentation of ownership of all the parts in question. Keep in mind that these laws are intended to combat auto theft, not legal repair.

Once again, this is FEDERAL law. State laws may (and probably will) vary. You must decide for yourself what to do. And I agree, it is a very slippery slope. Once you replace the roof, quarters, trunklid, doors, and floorpan, what's left? How close can you cut and weld to the VIN tag before you get into that apparently sacred metal?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008, 08:55 AM
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Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is what is the problem with an owner/builder making his own MSO? You are after all the manufacturer! It might confuse the heck out of the DMV, but could you do it? It might save some grief if it were possible.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2008, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman2333
Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is what is the problem with an owner/builder making his own MSO? You are after all the manufacturer! It might confuse the heck out of the DMV, but could you do it? It might save some grief if it were possible.
Try Post #22 above:

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
Many states now have a Specialty Constructed Vehicle registration option. SEMA has been pushing this hard. The process varies from state-to-state, but it usually involves documentation of all the parts you've purchased. Typically the DMV or State Police will inspect the car and issue a VIN.
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