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Old 09-27-2007, 10:18 PM
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carbor fiber clouding problrm

I have a carbon fiber hood on my grangsons Acura RSX and the finish all of a sudden has turned a milky effect. It started last month is a small aream now it covers half the hood.
Has anyone got any ideas what is causing this and what can I do to correct.

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Old 09-27-2007, 10:54 PM
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It may have a gel coat on the outside. If so gel coat has a low talrance to UV light. Maybe sand it with 800 grit wet paper then clear. I hope someone else will know more. I'm new here
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Old 09-28-2007, 02:28 AM
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I was thinking the same thing gel coat doesnt last too long in direct sunlight it should be cleared with a quality product to avoid the same problem down the road.
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Old 09-28-2007, 05:38 AM
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Here's a link you might find helpful...



http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthr...ibre+clearcoat




Last edited by milo; 09-28-2007 at 05:45 AM.
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Old 09-29-2007, 06:53 AM
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Carbon fibre should only be used with Epoxy resin which does not have any UV resistance therefore if it is exposed to the sun needs to be coated with a coating that does have UV resistance.

Despite what many companies claim clearcoats do not have very good resistance and the only way to completely protect the epoxy is to put pigment in it or paint over it. But of course this will cover the effect you are looking for.
This page has good info. http://www.epoxyproducts.com/uv.html

On boats we use varnish but I have never tried on a car and am unsure if the heat on your hood will affect it. Although a good varnish will face tropical sun every day and get so hot you can't stand on it and last a few years before it has to be recoated.

If it is Gel coat then someone has used polyester resin which is not recommended as you could face delamination problems.
Gel-coat is basically polyester resin usually with a pigment so it probably isn't 'gel-coat' if you can see through it.
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:20 AM
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Despite what many companies claim clear-coats do not have very good resistance and the only way to completely protect the epoxy is to put pigment in it or paint over it. But of course this will cover the effect you are looking for.
This page has good info. http://www.epoxyproducts.com/uv.html

On boats we use varnish but I have never tried on a car and am unsure if the heat on your hood will affect it. Although a good varnish will face tropical sun every day and get so hot you can't stand on it and last a few years before it has to be re-coated. {copy}
----------------------------------------------------------------

I know you are an expert in your field and I have read the attached Linc's that you included.
You do realize the attached two Linc's were only making reference to Varnishes and boat epoxies?

Automotive refinishes are not related in the slightest way and in automotive you better have the clear loaded up with UV blockers or you will be out of business in a year, it is a different ball game altogether.

Yes we use some of the same C/G's numbers like 123, 292, 400, 405, 479 928, 1130 but there are a lot of other factors when blending automotive that would not always apply to varnishes, such as type of resin the formula is started with, weight of resin to formula and also type of ISO used or type of blend of iso's "Can" also change everything right down to the starter formula quoited in the one article of a 2:1 ratio, lots of factors all put together alter everything only figured out in testing.


What Milo did with his PPG clear will last 5-15 years depending how the hood is taken care of, so you can see the re-coating of the varnish in a "few years"
is not really in the same ball park.

By the way, the Varnish will work as that is how cars were refinished, (without looking it up) somewhere around 80-90 years ago.

Just did not want anyone to think we now need to throw away the aerosol cans and go to Varnishes.

Last edited by BarryK; 09-30-2007 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:01 AM
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Hi Barry

I am a little confused of some of your points.

Quote:
You do realize the attached two Linc's were only making reference to Varnishes and boat epoxies?
With regards to the epoxy resin with which I have some experience.
Are you saying that there is a difference between boat epoxies and auto epoxy? I have not heard of manufacturers using a different resin that is formulated specifically for autos. Many people I know use West System for carbon fiber body parts because it is one of the best. West System is one of the most common epoxies in Marine ind. If this part is constructed of West System then it will be formulated the same and have minimal protection from UV rays.

With regards to the protective finish which I have experience with marine none with auto.
I have very little personal experience in auto refinishes so only know what companies (like Gougeon Brothers) tell me. Do auto paints need the same amount of UV resistance that epoxies do? Paints have built in resistance from pigments so does a clearcoat need huge amounts of UV resistance to keep that paint looking good. When I spoke to G.B. (a while ago)about it they told me the best way was to paint, varnish or shade West System epoxy to protect from sun. I like to hear what the companies say as they usually know best about their own product. Maybe if someone has the ability they could do a test and write about the results. (Only problems with these tests is that they take a long time.)

It's true that sometimes comparison from Marine to Auto is not the right way of looking at something. The environment is much harsher and we sometimes forget that. The common boat that I am used to dealing with is in salt water and the tropical sun 24/7 and if the varnish lasts 2 years then it's a good product. Many new products have come out in the last 5 years (including two part clearcoats) that have claimed to end the varnish cycle but they have never been as good as they claim to be and we have always gone back to the old standby. If someone has truly come out with a clearcoat that works then I wish they would tell us about it they could make a fortune in Florida and the Caribbean.

BTW
I don't think I've ever been called an 'expert in my field' before and I am very uncomfortable with it as it suggests I know everything there is to know and I certainly don't. I am constantly learning and actively searching for new knowledge of what I am interested in.
I always tell people I feel I am getting stupider as I get older as I seem to have more questions every day!!
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Old 09-30-2007, 11:36 AM
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I was only referring to the clear-coat.

Epoxies do have a UV issue of course but can very widely from product to product. Last I knew there were 123 companies in the USA that made epoxies
and each formulation would be different somehow and example would be the garage floor epoxy you can buy at HD for the garage floor, would not want that on a boat or a car.

Varnishes all I know is some "resin manufacturers" will list a common resin sometimes and it will say for use in " lacquer, base coats, varnishes"
Could the resin be turned into a urethane clear coat, yes but you would have a weak ISO Linc-up and would be of used car work value but excellent for blending with another resin to make a base coat in this business.

Resin or blend of resins would be the big difference and of course solid content or CP of the finale product that will give you higher poundage of the UV and of course higher mils for long term protection.
The activators also make a big difference.
Last I knew in your business, US Paint was a pretty big player for above the water-line use and they are automotive/aviation grade.

All I was pointing out was the clear-coat statement that the Linc made and did not want it confused with automotive, rest of your info was good reading.

Last edited by BarryK; 09-30-2007 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 10-01-2007, 08:15 AM
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Barry
yes U.S. Paints make Awl-Grip, considered by many to be the best marine coating. I have always been happy with them.

With respect to the OP.
I was interested in what Barry had to say about using auto clearcoats directly on resin so I called West System and they agreed that the two part polyurethanes are the best protection. Is this what the PPG is? They told me they give the same if not slightly better protection than the varnishes we use. So I am glad I called and might use it on a few pieces next time to give it a test.
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Old 10-01-2007, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrimshaw
Barry
yes U.S. Paints make Awl-Grip, considered by many to be the best marine coating. I have always been happy with them.

With respect to the OP.
I was interested in what Barry had to say about using auto clearcoats directly on resin so I called West System and they agreed that the two part polyurethanes are the best protection. Is this what the PPG is? They told me they give the same if not slightly better protection than the varnishes we use. So I am glad I called and might use it on a few pieces next time to give it a test.
----------------------------------------------------------------
LOL Slightly better then Varnish, sorry had to laugh! That is OK, I was punished as I spilled my coffee on me and the chair.

Forget the the test, here is what you do, next time you have one of these to paint grab some of your US PAINT Urethane OR Polyurethane clear, prefer one with a 2:1, 3:1 or 1:1 mixing ratio and spray two wet coats. It will change your life and in 3-5 years you will figure out who is not giving you the rest of the story.
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Old 10-01-2007, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
It will change your life and in 3-5 years you will figure out who is not giving you the rest of the story.
HEY what happened to 5-15 years as you stated in a previous post!

Many varnishes we have today ARE 2 part polys as I mentioned previously I was thinking there might be a difference in the two part varnish we have used and the clearcoats you were talking about, if I knew you were talking about awl-grip's urethane or similar (still wondering if this is what PPG is?)I could of told you right away that we don't consider them worthwhile because they have to be recoated in 2 -3 years anyway because they lose their gloss, so thats why many people still use regular varnish (which has a max life of about 2 years). The two-parts are just too expensive, too labor intensive and too difficult to apply for most people.

So yes they do last slightly longer as Gougeon Brothers have said but not long enough for us to change yet.
BTW The single part varnishes we use are not the same as they were years ago - as you seem to think - they have advanced quite a bit (just like paint and clearcoats) and are specifically made for UV protection, most of the time over bare wood so it HAS to be good or no-one would use it and it is still the major coating on wood in the tropics as far as I know.

Anyway that's about all I can contribute to this thread - told you I wasn't an expert .
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