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Old 10-17-2011, 05:55 PM
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Carburetor replacement for 56 bird

Hi gentlemen . I have learned that a auto lite 4100 is a good carburetor and would like to know if it would work on a 312 t-bird. I do know that I would need to change the distributor as well since it has a double vac. advance.Any advise would be appreciated. John

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Old 10-17-2011, 06:40 PM
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56 bird carb

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Pepper
Hi gentlemen . I have learned that a auto lite 4100 is a good carburetor and would like to know if it would work on a 312 t-bird. I do know that I would need to change the distributor as well since it has a double vac. advance.Any advise would be appreciated. John
you will need a 57 tbird distributor(to keep the tack drive stock).get a rebuild kit and re do the teapot holley,or find a rebuilt especially if you ar going to sho the car to bird guys. i have rebuilt several,1 problem is the small float capacity,so install a electric fuel pump(small cheapy ahead of the meckanical pump,just use it to prime the carb when it has set for a while.actuate with a togel.stock pump will draw threw when elec is off.If you find a 57 dist with tack drive a 600 holley would be my choice. cliff
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Old 10-17-2011, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Pepper
Hi gentlemen . I have learned that a auto lite 4100 is a good carburetor and would like to know if it would work on a 312 t-bird. I do know that I would need to change the distributor as well since it has a double vac. advance.Any advise would be appreciated. John
If you like the 4100, you'll like THIS carb, which is a redesign of the Holley 4010, which is a redesign of the original 4100-type carb.

On sale and is a better piece than the Holley 4010 due to the adjustability that it now has.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:39 PM
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4100 carb.

the advantage of the 4100 on a car that doesn't get driven often is the fuel is inside a one piece casting, not a separate float chamber like a holly. a lot of the 4100's had a casting pattern mismatch leaving flash and an offset in the bore , Take it apart and use some sand paper wrapped around a wood dowel and clean it up. don't try to enlarge the bore. I used to weld on some bent 16 penny nails to make a mechanical kick in for the back 2 barrels. I left the vacuum stuff intact.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:29 AM
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4100 carb

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Originally Posted by timothale
the advantage of the 4100 on a car that doesn't get driven often is the fuel is inside a one piece casting, not a separate float chamber like a holly. a lot of the 4100's had a casting pattern mismatch leaving flash and an offset in the bore , Take it apart and use some sand paper wrapped around a wood dowel and clean it up. don't try to enlarge the bore. I used to weld on some bent 16 penny nails to make a mechanical kick in for the back 2 barrels. I left the vacuum stuff intact.
Does that mean that you used a 4100 hundred on a 312?
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Old 10-19-2011, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Pepper
Hi gentlemen . I have learned that a auto lite 4100 is a good carburetor and would like to know if it would work on a 312 t-bird. I do know that I would need to change the distributor as well since it has a double vac. advance.Any advise would be appreciated. John
X2 on the distributor, modern 4 barrels 1957 to present don't have the in-venturi vacuum tap the full time vacuum advance of the 1956 distributor needs.

The Holley 4100 came into Ford use in 1957 this was followed by the Ford version 4100 in 1958 both the same spread bore foot print which is different than your old teapot Holley. They also share a lot of internal parts in jets, power valve and in some variations the accelerating pump. These will need either an adapter or a 1957 4 bbl Y block intake to fit your engine. The Holley 4010 is a modern rendition of the old Ford 4100 which is now out of production but still out there. This and the Ford suffer from the power valve being on the bottom of the float bowl facing upward and waiting for the first piece of dirt that lodges it open, it empties the gas tank muy-pronto when this happens.

Another good choice would be the Carter/Edlebrock AFB which in size and foot print is closer to the old teapot.

Bogie
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:57 PM
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ford carb

I had one on a 58 352 , the dash emblem said thunderbird police interceptor special. the tpis left the factory the same as the 361 edsel. .060 over bore on a 352. I reworked a carter AFB on a buddy's 352, More power than the ford , shortley after I switched to 3-2's with an Isky kit with solid lifters, 1,5 rockers, pushrods, dual springs. A buddy had a 312 dual quad bird engine in his 56 ford, The 2-4 motors ran and isky cam factory installed. The Y block guru was Carrol Miller from Texas. drove his 56 ford to Bonneville got 22 MPG then beat the Ford Factory teams. HE knew how to get a y block to rev.
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Old 10-20-2011, 02:07 PM
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56bird dampner

the isue hear is not the carb,it is select a carb to go with the dual diaphram advance on existing distributor.if it is the stock 56dist it has a cable tack drive. if a carb newer than 56 is used ther are not the corect advanc and retard vacume ports.if the distributor is not original just use a 57 and newer wblock ditributor and the carb seletion is numerous with a adaptor for th different bot patern. the engine will run poorly if mix and match of dit and carb,the 55 carb is different than 56,chok is oon intake 56 chok on carb.55 single diafhram 56 dual.55 and 56 no cent advance.
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Old 10-20-2011, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Pepper
Hi gentlemen . I have learned that a auto lite 4100 is a good carburetor and would like to know if it would work on a 312 t-bird. I do know that I would need to change the distributor as well since it has a double vac. advance.Any advise would be appreciated. John
For what it is worth (maybe not much) I have seen the double vac Ford dists run with the retard line not hooked up. Big Al
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Old 10-20-2011, 05:10 PM
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56bird dampner

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Originally Posted by adantessr
For what it is worth (maybe not much) I have seen the double vac Ford dists run with the retard line not hooked up. Big Al
how well did they run.ihad a 55ford car and it went well with the single di dist,but had to run15degese initial to make it run well at higher rpm.recently instaled a 57 dist in 56fordtruck(292) and holley 600 4v,it goes verry wel threwout its rpm range.my idea for some one with a56 bird would to do it corectly and look period corect.big differenc from running and performing atleast as well as when it was built
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Old 10-21-2011, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliff tate
how well did they run.ihad a 55ford car and it went well with the single di dist,but had to run15degese initial to make it run well at higher rpm.recently instaled a 57 dist in 56fordtruck(292) and holley 600 4v,it goes verry wel threwout its rpm range.my idea for some one with a56 bird would to do it corectly and look period corect.big differenc from running and performing atleast as well as when it was built
As I recall, they ran just fine. The second vacuum can is for timing retard under decelleration. Not having it hooked up is not a detriment to performance. I worked at a Ford dealership from June of '70 'till November of '71, so I remember these well.
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adantessr
As I recall, they ran just fine. The second vacuum can is for timing retard under decelleration. Not having it hooked up is not a detriment to performance. I worked at a Ford dealership from June of '70 'till November of '71, so I remember these well.
I think people are confusing the Vacuum Retard system for emissions for the vacuum advance system of the 1950's. The 1960's and on brought vacuum idle retard systems to reduce NOx emissions, these are different in intent and function from the 1940's and 50's full vacuum (Loadmatic) spark advance devices.

There is no vacuum retard on these early 50's distributors, it's all an advance system working against a closing (retard) spring. The purpose of two ports is that manifold vacuum and venturi vacuum are the reverse of each other while operating advance is needed continuously in the increasing direction with engine speed. Some systems use one port diaphragms, they do the port switching within the carb Ford Falcon an example.

At low to moderate RPM where the throttle is mostly closed manifold vacuum is high and is used to establish an amount of advance. However, as the throttle is opened manifold vacuum decreases and the return spring in the canister overcomes the vacuum diaphragm and begins to reduce the advance. So the question is how to keep the advance rate going up while the manifold vacuum is decreasing.

The answer lies in the reversal of vacuum between the manifold and the venturi. When the throttle is mostly closed the manifold has high vacuum while the air speed through the venturi is slow which results in low venturi vacuum. As has been stated, as the throttle is opened the manifold vacuum decreases. However, the air velocity through the venturi increases which results in a local high vacuum forming within the venturi. The old 1950's Ford V8s (I6's used this into the 1960's) tap into the venturi as a vacuum source to continue with the engine's need for more advance as the RPMs increase with ever more throttle opening.

Buried in this system is a shuttle valve that is controlled by manifold vacuum, as the manifold vacuum decreases the shuttle valve closes that port and opens the venturi port. This may be found as part of the diaphragm canister, but can be in the carb as in the Ford Falcon, or a stand alone component.

Modern (1957 up) four barrels like the Holley and Ford that use a vacuum secondary to open the rear throttle blades use this same increase in venturi vacuum (within the primaries) to open the secondaries. This is a self guiding system in that as the secondaries open the air velocity within the primary venturi drops which lowers the primary venturi vacuum signal. This keeps the secondaries tracking with the engine's air flow demand, actually slightly behind which is why vacuum secondaries never show quite the same power at WOT when replaced with mechanical secondaries with all other engine parameters being the same.



Bogie
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Old 10-21-2011, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbogie
I think people are confusing the Vacuum Retard system for emissions for the vacuum advance system of the 1950's. The 1960's and on brought vacuum idle retard systems to reduce NOx emissions, these are different in intent and function from the 1940's and 50's full vacuum (Loadmatic) spark advance devices.

There is no vacuum retard on these early 50's distributors, it's all an advance system working against a closing (retard) spring. The purpose of two ports is that manifold vacuum and venturi vacuum are the reverse of each other while operating advance is needed continuously in the increasing direction with engine speed. Some systems use one port diaphragms, they do the port switching within the carb Ford Falcon an example.

At low to moderate RPM where the throttle is mostly closed manifold vacuum is high and is used to establish an amount of advance. However, as the throttle is opened manifold vacuum decreases and the return spring in the canister overcomes the vacuum diaphragm and begins to reduce the advance. So the question is how to keep the advance rate going up while the manifold vacuum is decreasing.

The answer lies in the reversal of vacuum between the manifold and the venturi. When the throttle is mostly closed the manifold has high vacuum while the air speed through the venturi is slow which results in low venturi vacuum. As has been stated, as the throttle is opened the manifold vacuum decreases. However, the air velocity through the venturi increases which results in a local high vacuum forming within the venturi. The old 1950's Ford V8s (I6's used this into the 1960's) tap into the venturi as a vacuum source to continue with the engine's need for more advance as the RPMs increase with ever more throttle opening.

Buried in this system is a shuttle valve that is controlled by manifold vacuum, as the manifold vacuum decreases the shuttle valve closes that port and opens the venturi port. This may be found as part of the diaphragm canister, but can be in the carb as in the Ford Falcon, or a stand alone component.

Modern (1957 up) four barrels like the Holley and Ford that use a vacuum secondary to open the rear throttle blades use this same increase in venturi vacuum (within the primaries) to open the secondaries. This is a self guiding system in that as the secondaries open the air velocity within the primary venturi drops which lowers the primary venturi vacuum signal. This keeps the secondaries tracking with the engine's air flow demand, actually slightly behind which is why vacuum secondaries never show quite the same power at WOT when replaced with mechanical secondaries with all other engine parameters being the same.



Bogie
Thanks a bunch for clearing that up Bogie. I am too young to know anything prior to the 60's. I started working on cars in '66 when I was 14. Big Al
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