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Old 12-12-2013, 09:59 PM
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Carter or a Rochester? 55 GMC, 287 Pontiac

I'm sure one of you can tell by looking. The truck is not close enough for me to drive to. The books list either a Carter WGD or a Rochester 2GC. I looked for images of both online but neither looked exact. I'd like to find an air breather for it. Are 2 bbl carbs pretty generic as far as breather fitment goes? I'm not worried about finding a model correct piece at the moment. Also, does anyone know how many quarts of oil a 287 holds? And what weight it should run?


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Old 12-13-2013, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghetto Jet View Post
I'm sure one of you can tell by looking. The truck is not close enough for me to drive to. The books list either a Carter WGD or a Rochester 2GC. I looked for images of both online but neither looked exact. I'd like to find an air breather for it. Are 2 bbl carbs pretty generic as far as breather fitment goes? I'm not worried about finding a model correct piece at the moment. Also, does anyone know how many quarts of oil a 287 holds? And what weight it should run?

Kind of hard to tell for sure in this picture but I think that's a Stromberg WW.

Bogie
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Old 12-13-2013, 08:28 PM
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Kind of hard to tell for sure in this picture but I think that's a Stromberg WW.

Bogie
I agree. It's a Stromberg WW

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Old 12-13-2013, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Ghetto Jet View Post
I'd like to find an air breather for it.
Measure the air horn. If it's 2 5/16", the model #16-4 on this site will fit.....
Revheads - Engine Dressup - Air Cleaners & Accessories


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghetto Jet View Post
Also, does anyone know how many quarts of oil a 287 holds? And what weight it should run?
If there is an oil filter on the motor, use 10W-30 detergent oil. If there is no oil filter on it, use 30 weight non-detergent. Add one of these to each oil change. Oil formulations have changed, they no longer contain extreme pressure ZDDP lubricants that used to protect the cam and lifters. Add one bottle to each oil change to protect the cam.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-94000/overview/

As far as how much to put in the motor, drain all the old oil out and put 5 quarts in. Check the dipstick. If the motor needs more, the dipstick will tell you. It should not need more than 6 quarts.
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:16 AM
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Stromberg, ok, mystery solved.

Techinspector oils still contain ZDDP. Most conventionals have in the 800-850 PPM range. High mileage oils and synthetics coming in around 1000-1100. The EPA has reduced allowable levels for passenger car oil but there are still brands on the shelf with high levels that will suit the needs of a normal flat tappet equipped engine. Most of the HDEO's, VR1 conventional, local to me Brad Penn, Mobil 1 10w40R ect are in the 1200-1400 range with Phosphorous/Zinc. Mobil sells some in the 1600/1750 which I believe is on the verge of too high. Too much ZDDP also causes increased wear and that additive you use boosts Phosphorous by 1200 ppm and Zinc by 1400. I would not be comfortable with that mix. Even in the 90's before the EPA went Gestapo there was still a 1600 PPM maximum limit. I am not sure how long that law had existed at that point but I didn't notice any real concern show up in the automotive community until levels started falling below 1200.

If you enjoy the specifics of oil you should check out BobIsTheOilGuy.com. I've been a member for several years.

Last edited by Ghetto Jet; 12-14-2013 at 12:28 AM.
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Ghetto Jet View Post
Stromberg, ok, mystery solved.

Techinspector oils still contain ZDDP. Most conventionals have in the 800-850 PPM range. High mileage oils and synthetics coming in around 1000-1100. The EPA has reduced allowable levels for passenger car oil but there are still brands on the shelf with high levels that will suit the needs of a normal flat tappet equipped engine. Most of the HDEO's, VR1 conventional, local to me Brad Penn, Mobil 1 10w40R ect are in the 1200-1400 range with Phosphorous/Zinc. Mobil sells some in the 1600/1750 which I believe is on the verge of too high. Too much ZDDP also causes increased wear and that additive you use boosts Phosphorous by 1200 ppm and Zinc by 1400. I would not be comfortable with that mix. Even in the 90's before the EPA went Gestapo there was still a 1600 PPM maximum limit. I am not sure how long that law had existed at that point but I didn't notice any real concern show up in the automotive community until levels started falling below 1200.

If you enjoy the specifics of oil you should check out BobIsTheOilGuy.com. I've been a member for several years.
It's not about the Gestapo. It's about the manufacturers being hit with warranty claims due to extreme pressure lubes in the oil ruining catalytic converters. Pressure on oil companies from the OEM's is what has killed EP lubes in off-the-shelf motor oils.

I agree that there is a possibility of using too much EP lube in the oil.

"Most conventionals have in the 800-850 PPM range."
Not enough to protect a hot rod motor that uses stronger valve springs than stock.


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Old 12-14-2013, 02:58 PM
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I agree with Tech1
Use Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs hotrod oil.
That old motor needs zinc.
Don't run conventional oil in it.
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
It's not about the Gestapo. It's about the manufacturers being hit with warranty claims due to extreme pressure lubes in the oil ruining catalytic converters. Pressure on oil companies from the OEM's is what has killed EP lubes in off-the-shelf motor oils.

I agree that there is a possibility of using too much EP lube in the oil.

"Most conventionals have in the 800-850 PPM range."
Not enough to protect a hot rod motor that uses stronger valve springs than stock.


.
I realize that. I gave you all the levels because you suggested it was absent from oil altogether. I understand what the engine needs, I listed a whole string of brands off the top of my head that still meet the criteria, there are many more.


I'm aware of the purpose for the reduction in ZDDP. And I do equate the EPA with the gestapo. I do not believe the EPA operates with much thought towards improving the auto manufactures bottom line. The overwhelming majority of catalytic converter failures occur after warranty expiration. The EPA's goal is to reduce emissions and if they kill some old engines in the process that is just an added bonus. If Gina McCarthy had her way our hobby wouldn't even exist.

Last edited by Ghetto Jet; 12-15-2013 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by LATECH View Post
I agree with Tech1
Use Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs hotrod oil.
That old motor needs zinc.
Don't run conventional oil in it.
Did you read my post?

"there are still brands on the shelf with high levels that will suit the needs of a normal flat tappet equipped engine. Most of the HDEO's, VR1 conventional, local to me Brad Penn, Mobil 1 10w40R ect are in the 1200-1400 range with Phosphorous/Zinc. Mobil sells some in the 1600/1750 which I believe is on the verge of too high."

Last edited by Ghetto Jet; 12-15-2013 at 06:03 AM.
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Old 12-19-2013, 08:07 AM
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Damn GJ...simmer down. The purpose of this forum is to be helpful and increase the knowledge base of the group as a whole. Just because you have a better than average understanding of something, doesn't mean the next guy reading it is as well equipped as you
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