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-   -   A Case To EFI (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/case-efi-231323.html)

1Gary 03-30-2013 11:59 AM

A Case To EFI
 
Tuning In To The EFI Market: Engine Builder

:thumbup:

vinniekq2 03-30-2013 01:09 PM

Its hard to justify using a carb now a days

gearheadslife 03-30-2013 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinniekq2 (Post 1661727)
Its hard to justify using a carb now a days



not really.. I have carb's the rebuild kits are cheap..
EFI might be wonderfull but most don't have 1500+ to blow on it..
yes I'd love to get a holley hp efi for my 489 but the funds are just not there..
I wish I could but 99.oo master holley 3301-3 rebuild kit . or 1800.00 for the holley mpf efi hp kit..+ injectors and pump /lines so 2400.oo ish
the megasquirt is an option but that be more for someone thats either got a buddy thats already into the efi tuning that can guide you some..
or try it on an engine you don't care if you blow a hole in a piston learning..
and truthfully some engines.. like the bbc . where junkyard intakes and injectors really are not aval..
the cost isn't that much cheaper than the holley set up..
once you factor in the ecu /fuel rails/injectors/pump/lines/wiring/relays or relay board, communation cable and ubs adapter..
IF I can find a TPI this spring in a junkyard I will tinker with efi on my worn out 305 in my truck and learn on it.. as that is a cheap way to go.. 300-500 for the tpi and then the harness and ms ecu and cable/pump /line
the suck part of that.. is the TPI won't work on my 355 with big port heads.. so it's learn then start over... carb you can bolt from one engine to another. change jets(cheap) maybe a shooter/ramps/power valve( under 50 bucks)
and go..
has anyone priced a set of 8 injectors lately??? poof bye 1000.oo+

vinniekq2 03-30-2013 01:56 PM

I will rephrase;
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gearheadslife (Post 1661732)
not really.. I have carb's the rebuild kits are cheap..
EFI might be wonderfull but most don't have 1500+ to blow on it..
yes I'd love to get a holley hp efi for my 489 but the funds are just not there..
I wish I could but 99.oo master holley 3301-3 rebuild kit . or 1800.00 for the holley mpf efi hp kit..+ injectors and pump /lines so 2400.oo ish
the megasquirt is an option but that be more for someone thats either got a buddy thats already into the efi tuning that can guide you some..
or try it on an engine you don't care if you blow a hole in a piston learning..
and truthfully some engines.. like the bbc . where junkyard intakes and injectors really are not aval..
the cost isn't that much cheaper than the holley set up..
once you factor in the ecu /fuel rails/injectors/pump/lines/wiring/relays or relay board, communation cable and ubs adapter..
IF I can find a TPI this spring in a junkyard I will tinker with efi on my worn out 305 in my truck and learn on it.. as that is a cheap way to go.. 300-500 for the tpi and then the harness and ms ecu and cable/pump /line
the suck part of that.. is the TPI won't work on my 355 with big port heads.. so it's learn then start over... carb you can bolt from one engine to another. change jets(cheap) maybe a shooter/ramps/power valve( under 50 bucks)
and go..
has anyone priced a set of 8 injectors lately??? poof bye 1000.oo+

If you make serious power and want excellent control of tuning,want to drive in mountainous regions,want to race and not tune at the track,have the ability to have a "valet" tune,want easier starting and cold drive ability then E.F.I. has many advantages that may well be worth considering.
same thing with using crank fired ignition and not worrying about cam chain stretch,distributor bearing wear,etc.
As better parts are introduced,using them is up to the individual,,
lol,some people still use points and dont use seat belts

gearheadslife 03-30-2013 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinniekq2 (Post 1661736)
If you make serious power and want excellent control of tuning,want to drive in mountainous regions,want to race and not tune at the track,have the ability to have a "valet" tune,want easier starting and cold drive ability then E.F.I. has many advantages that may well be worth considering.
same thing with using crank fired ignition and not worrying about cam chain stretch,distributor bearing wear,etc.
As better parts are introduced,using them is up to the individual,,
lol,some people still use points and dont use seat belts

true.. but the buy in. is steep for cars that might see 2000-5000 miles ayear and used only in warm weather (cold start issues, not)
yes a big hp package it's easier to tune for more power. but then again.. those dumping 10-15k in an engine another 2000-3000k isn't gonna make or break their budget..
as for mountains.. how the hell did we ever get by before efi??
yes it's kool to just open a laptop/tablet and tune for that track.. or sealevel.. but not everyone needs that.. nor. can eat the buy in..
even in this hobby 2-3000 is still big money..
yes I'd not run a turbo again without efi.. but at that point budget isn't a word used in the engine build.. no matter what the ls guys say..
unless you call a 1000+ turbo /400+ in tubing/ blow off valve,waste gate 600.oo/ headers 400-600+/ and bigger injectors 1000 and the tuner to tune it 500+..

for most that extra power isn't needed and the huge cost is a turn off..
yes more power is always nice.. but I'll never understand why today.. the carb intakes are not alreadt drilled for efi bungs and just capped..
and I'd love to know why a throttlebody cost more than a carb with 1-12th the parts..

vinniekq2 03-30-2013 02:48 PM

quote
"as for mountains.. how the hell did we ever get by before efi??"
cars lost power before,ran rich,wore out quicker,,,
with F.I.,engines get better mileage,run cleaner,last longer.
I use a carb,,,I have 10k into the engine.
a carb is a controlled fuel leak

most tuners dont even spend time on the carbs,yet the cars still run

most of the stock engines from the manufacturers make more horse power than the hot rodders engines with their thumpr cams/avenger carbs/home ported heads and 2 1/2 inch exhaust systems
why??????????

gearheadslife 03-30-2013 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinniekq2 (Post 1661752)
quote
"as for mountains.. how the hell did we ever get by before efi??"
cars lost power before,ran rich,wore out quicker,,,
with F.I.,engines get better mileage,run cleaner,last longer.
I use a carb,,,I have 10k into the engine.
a carb is a controlled fuel leak

most tuners dont even spend time on the carbs,yet the cars still run

most of the stock engines from the manufacturers make more horse power than the hot rodders engines with their thumpr cams/avenger carbs/home ported heads and 2 1/2 inch exhaust systems
why??????????

roller cams, better intakes and heads , the ls engine lost nothing with a carb.. and distributor.. WHY?

vinniekq2 03-30-2013 03:05 PM

fi Vs carb
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gearheadslife (Post 1661755)
roller cams, better intakes and heads , the ls engine lost nothing with a carb.. and distributor.. WHY?

You do not lose hp with a carb conversion,never have.
you lose what was already mentioned.

F.I. has a lot to offer,except price.

gearheadslife 03-30-2013 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinniekq2 (Post 1661760)
You do not lose hp with a carb conversion,never have.
you lose what was already mentioned.

F.I. has a lot to offer,except price.

thats the problem. there is no need for the cost..
if the stuff was made here, fine.. but it's all made with cheap labor..

take everything out of a carb but leave the trottle blades and add a 5 dollar tbs to the side.. and charge 6-900.oo for it..
injectors are mass produced.. no reason they cost what they do..
other than they can..

can't wait till efi is manstreem and the units are 5-7 years old, and giving the owner fits..
there is something to be said for K.I.S.S.

1Gary 03-30-2013 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gearheadslife (Post 1661767)
thats the problem. there is no need for the cost..
if the stuff was made here, fine.. but it's all made with cheap labor..

take everything out of a carb but leave the trottle blades and add a 5 dollar tbs to the side.. and charge 6-900.oo for it..
injectors are mass produced.. no reason they cost what they do..
other than they can..

can't wait till efi is manstreem and the units are 5-7 years old, and giving the owner fits..
there is something to be said for K.I.S.S.


With your reply I can see you either didn't read the link or didn't understand it.Go back and re-read it.Then...............

S10xGN 03-31-2013 10:12 AM

My current project (LS motor in a '63 Rambler American) is getting a Holley HP EFI system. I have a carb'ed LS in my Maverick and hate it. Runs great, but runs so rich at idle it fouls plugs and after a few minutes you smell like a gas pump. And yes, it has to be that rich (13.4 AFR) to keep from stalling with the cam I have...

Russ

1Gary 03-31-2013 10:16 PM

Curious.What is the 63's wt??.

S10xGN 04-01-2013 08:19 AM

My title says 2450#, but I've seen weights listed as high as 2740#. Being a stripped out 220 2dr sedan, it's prolly on the low side somewhere. Not sure where it'll end up, the engine and trans are lighter, but adding a rear clip and 9" will add some back...

Russ

Studebaker 04-01-2013 08:44 PM

Efi
 
I would like to have EFI, however reality sets in. It's just way, way too expensive. I can buy 4 or 5 nice carbs for the price of one EFI system. I know the carb will work. For a vehicle that is a toy, EFI is also very complicated for the returns. At this point in time it's just not an rational alternative to the simplicity of a carb for limited use vehicle.

vinniekq2 04-01-2013 09:24 PM

nice carb=$650.บบ
F.I.=$1200.บบ
?


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