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Old 08-17-2005, 12:30 PM
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CB radio on 6 volt system

Hey guys,
my '50 Dodge has a nice panel to the left of the steering column with nothing in it, a nice canvas. I was thinking of either CD/MP3 player or CB radio. I'm opting for the CB as of now since I can put the CD player under my seat. Anyways, how do I go about running it on 6 volts? I will not convert to 12 volts for awhile yet.



Thanks,


Mike

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Old 08-17-2005, 01:01 PM
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There are ways to step DC voltage down, but I do not know of any to raise it.

Last edited by Henry Highrise; 08-17-2005 at 01:02 PM. Reason: word change
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Old 08-17-2005, 04:31 PM
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Voltage / current

Doc here,

Build yourself or purchase a Voltage / Current Doubler To raise the voltage to 12 Volts and the current to within certain limits (As high as chopper transistors can handle it)

Both ways can be expensive, and not a path for a novice..unless your experienced at building power supplies..that use Choppers and step up transformers.


OPTION 2 :

Put a motorcycle or lawn tractor battery in the trunk and run the wires to a proper fuse buss / link and on to your 12 volt items.

You Can use a plastic Cooler 6 pack cooler as a Battery box, for Lawn tractor and MC battery's just drill holes for the cables in and out, Vent, and a Velcro or bungee hold down around it.

The drawback here, is you have to static charge it every few days ...up to you depending how long it will be until you upgrade the power system.

OPTION 3:

We have a HUGE Military surplus outlet at the Airport here, (like 5 Quonset huts..floor to ceiling..2 feet to walk down the center..) I don't know if you have any of these near you..(or maybe EBAY?) but If so ... look for (or ask for) a 12 volt DC mechanical driven dynomotor, hook the crank into a 6 volt motor..To drive the dyno...and run the dyno into filter caps, and fuses to your 12 volt lines..(always use some filter Caps if you do this and are lucky enough to find one.. dyno's whine..)


OPTION 4:


Convert it now, or wait until you do so to run these items...you still can mount them where you want them and wire them without fuses in place until you go 12 volts...

Doc
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Old 08-17-2005, 04:40 PM
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Great info Doc! I learned something again today. Thanks!
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Old 08-17-2005, 04:47 PM
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Would it not be better in the long run to convert the truck to 12 volts. You will probably want to do it eventually anyways. Your starter will work on 12 volts, you can change to an alternator, the lightbulbs will burn out quicker, but just replace with 12v ones. You will need a step down resister for your guages. I just think that would be the way to go...............what do you think doc?
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Old 08-17-2005, 05:16 PM
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Conversion

Doc here,

For sure, Poncho, the conversion is the best way to go...

Sounded like from his first post he was not ready (either collecting parts or money...) To do that just yet..So I just threw some "Cheepie " options that should serve him a few months, If he so inclined to do so.

If he does the upgrade though, he should think a new harness, simply because the old ones were cotton insulated and have 50 + years of flammable stained into them.

The resistor is good if you want to retain the stock instrumentation..BUT be sure you mark those wires as 6 volts so they don't get confused and used later for a 12 volt install..(..oh..heres a stray power wire, I can hook my amp into..)

On the motors..My preference has always been Change them wherever possible to 12 volts..While it's very true an electric motor will run 125% higher than rated winding recommendation..and lot's of folks do it all the time..It will shorten the motor life about 3/4 AND will draw Massive current doing it...(difference in internal resistance at a given voltage) So heat and winding breakdown are an issue..I leave it up to the individual, but If asked I will always opt to change it out.

Other items to change, Coil, Wiper motor (if not Vacuum) , Heater Blower Motor, Signal flashers, properly REFUSE for 12 volts..(you have to apply ohms law here) Of course bulbs, And don't forget proper fuse links..

While I DO NOT recommend the split buss system (6 volts from a resistor along with upgraded 12 volts) You can run any of these options that way..Danger here is mis-wiring..6 to 12 volts someday down the road. I advocate Either/Or, not both..but sometimes that is not possible..

Forgot all about itt until Poncho mentioned it.....You Could also Get a resistor now, run the car on 6 volts from the resistor,but install a 12 volt battery instead of a 6 volt., and run your modern equipment from it..again..be careful of a mis-wire.

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Old 08-17-2005, 07:39 PM
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Why not add a 12v. one wire alt. a small 12v. battery to power only your cd player.
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Old 08-17-2005, 08:36 PM
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Hm, this'll be harder than I thought, sounds like converting to 12v rightaways might be the smartest thing after all Reason I didnt want to was a)money b)why re-invent the wheel? it worked good from factory to why change?
But the answer to B would be 'cause I want a CB-radio
Guess I'll hit the junkyards for an alternator, will an 80's GM one work fine? I think I'll find plenty of those cause a wrecking yard here has tons of caprices and trucks and chevy vans from the 80's mostly. I cant change the old harness, no money for that and no experience either. I wanna get this sucker on the road as soon as possible. I guess I'll have to make up a custom bracket to hold the alt then?

Thanks to all for the great info, Doc you never cease to amaze me.




Mike
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Old 08-18-2005, 05:11 AM
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You can find a DC DC converter like this:



good luck!

baulet
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Old 08-18-2005, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightfire
Guess I'll hit the junkyards for an alternator, will an 80's GM one work fine? I think I'll find plenty of those cause a wrecking yard here has tons of caprices and trucks and chevy vans from the 80's mostly.




Mike

Doc here,

You can get a rebuilt 63 amp at like Auto zone or Napa for like $25 to $30 bucks...So why not go with that ? You get a warranty, and not have to worry about it falling apart in 150 miles...and what's a bone yard gonna charge $20 bucks?

On the Harness, I strongly Recommend you build/purchase a new one in future, even if you run it a short time while you set up for the new one.....Besides changing the physics of it...Higher lighting demands, modern equipment being installed, Alternator where a generator once lived..Those Old factory Harness's were insulated in COTTON..

After 50 years of soaking up gas and oil, one good spark and you have det cord for a Molotov cocktail...Find an old piece not used, cut it out and away from the car light it with a lighter...you'll see exactly what I mean...

Just a safety thought..

Doc
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Old 10-25-2005, 02:25 PM
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6volt to 12volt voltage converter

Hi baulet, Just wondering where I can buy one of those voltage converters you showed? are they available only in Europe?
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Old 10-25-2005, 05:24 PM
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if you buy a coil type 12V-6v reducer, you can switch the coils around to reverse it to 6v-12v, there available at radioshack and places like that.
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Old 10-25-2005, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
if you buy a coil type 12V-6v reducer, you can switch the coils around to reverse it to 6v-12v, there available at radioshack and places like that.
Doc here,

No, you can not Reverse a reducer to double voltage / Current...

You Need Specifically A Chopper/Doubler circuit DESIGNED to receive a 6 volt input and provide a 12 Volt output...Simply reversing a coil will NOT achieve this..

Doc
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Old 10-25-2005, 06:36 PM
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My dad told me this was possible, weather he is right or wrong, I don't know but, I do know a long time ago he got very interested in small electronics and got lots of books on them, and still has them. I'm not talking a reducer like speedway sells to hook to the back of gauges when switching from 6-12 volt, the reducer boxes you can get at radioshack is what I'm talking about. transformers and the reducers are the same visully but the coils are backwards from eachother ( my dad said ) so switching the coils would change the input/ output but cut the amprage in half. If there is a reducer made to go 12-6, than there should be a transformer/ voltage increaser to go from 6-12 tho, my dad said the voltage increaser might not be made, that is why he suggested getting the reducer and switching the coils. I want to keep my '51 Chevy 6v but I want to add an awooga horn, and there only made in 12 volt now, that is what he gave me as an answer when I asked him how I could do it.
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Old 10-25-2005, 08:11 PM
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Voltage Drops

Doc here,

If I read it right, you are referring to the TRANSFORMER at the input end of the Supply, In order to generate 12 volts, you need to go to a STEP UP transformer (I think this is what you are referring to as coils) This will in fact step up the voltage to 12 volts...BUT at no usable current to speak of.

In order to generate non~inductive Current you MUST supply the accompanying Circuit around it....Chopper Transistors to AMPLIFY Current at a specific rate, and duty cycle. Capacitive circuits (rated at the higher value) to store and buffer and wave shape the output, Diode circuits to isolate and provide polarity to the output are JUST a few items needed to make a doubler function.

So It's not just as simple as turning a transformer around...Case in point..look at an Ignition coil...uses 12 volts at 6 amps in to the primary side of the coil (or same as a transformer) and produces an intermittent Spark at the secondary side, at 40,000 WVDC, but at only 7/10 of an amp..No virtual Current..You need To Shape, AMPLIFY, Store and Buffer the Current to make it work.

Using that logic, you would be able to put 12 volts power to a Battery charger, and produce 110 volts DC at the output by reversing the input transformer..That ain't happening...at best you'd just swamp the current at the reversed primary (too many windings, too much resistance to ground) and produce zero volts on the inductive secondary. You Need Inverters for this.

Not trying to say your Dad was wrong...Because inductively you can reverse a transformer (within short limits) and step up an output..however Current wise without surrounding circuitry, It won't produce enough useful current to run anything ...and the 6 volt circuitry won't handle it..Capacitive circuits for instance would be underrated voltage wise, (like, 1000MFD at 6 WVDC) causing them to overheat and explode..Resistance values would be all wrong at the new voltage too..

Some Step ups use pulse width modulation at a 50 % Duty cycle, to add refresh time and store and build windows at the output..it also allows lower input current because it's only on 50 % of the time..and they can be frequency modulated also..some aircraft apps run at 400 cycles from a 24 volt DC (0 cycles) module to power old (ancient) Avionics.

Doc
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