cc's in valve relief- 454 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 04:46 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 272
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
cc's in valve relief- 454

Hi
Does anyone know the cc count for 2 valve reliefs
in flat top .030" 454 pistons????
Is it 4.9 cc's..?
I am just trying to figure out my CR after resurfacing
these 101cc heads they are pretty rough so I am thinking
after a few swipes on the plainer I may be down to 100cc's
or maybe 99cc's
Thank you

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 05:00 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,153
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 380 Times in 374 Posts
TRW L2377 flat top forged 454 pistons have two opposing intake valve reliefs.
The cc volume is 5cc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 05:24 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 272
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
cc's in Pistons

F-TBIRD 88"
Thanks for the reply.
So with 4.28" bore (.030 over), 4.00 stroke,
0.0 deck height, 5cc piston height and 100cc
chambers I am looking at 9.24:1 CR.
On a BBC is this so,so for performance with headers,
double plain intake, good cam? or should the CR be more?
I have heard that BBC do not need a lot of CR to put out
lots of HP and torque.
Thanks again
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2008, 06:22 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,153
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 380 Times in 374 Posts
While its true you do not want to get carried away with compression ratio on a big bore motor like a 454 BBC, you don;t want to short change it either.
You want 9.5:1+ up to 10:1 max. for 92 octane pump gas and typical hi perf street cams.
Mill your 100cc heads down a bit. 92cc ish
You can O deck your block and use a .040" gasket or
A stock block and pistons typically has a .022" to .025" piston deck clearance.
Use a thin .022" 454-LS-6 steel shim head gasket to maximize the cr without having to "O deck" the block.

You'll be at 9.75 to 9.85:1 Just right.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008, 09:17 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 272
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
CR w/Flat Top & Closed Chambers

F-BIRD'88
Thanks again. The problem I see with milling heads is
that I may have alignment issue with my intake???
I originally told my mechinist to take .060" off, but he
was hesitant due to alignment. The valves are out and he
has bead blasted them so now is the time to mill the heads.
I do not have all the formulas, but near as I can figure...if
I take 0.060" I will end up with 94.94cc chambers.
Plus a .030" over 454 bore should be 4.28" or 4.3775"???not sure
F-BIRD, I talked to you before and you suggest the Isky #396245,
Z45 grind solid lifter cam. I decide not to go with solid due to maintenance
and valve clearance issue that may pop up. I want the 11-601-4 Compcam
Thumper hyd lifter...just because hyd will be less maintenance. I need to tell
my guy today how much to mill if anything other than resurface. your help
would be great or anyone elses help...this is not my strong suite.
Thank you much
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008, 09:42 AM
Double_v23's Avatar
Horsepower Enthusiast
 

Last journal entry: Finished BMOD001FH
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Mooresville, NC
Posts: 1,495
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
if you are doing a straight decking of the head then you may see some misalignment of the intake, so you would want to take the appropriate amount off of the intake mating surfaces on the front and back of the block.

You could have him angle mill the heads though and this would leave the area underneath the intake runners relatively unchanged. As long as he machined the correct angle into the head where the intake mounts you should be good to go.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008, 09:57 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 272
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
CR, mill, Close Chamber

Double V23
Thanks for the advice.
Wouldn't it be easier "IF" I run into a problem to
just take same amount mill off heads, off the aluminum intake
front and back so she rest properly.
Still can't figure EXACTLY how much to mill to achieve say
94cc's chambers +/- I was thinking 0.60"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008, 10:04 AM
RPM's Avatar
RPM RPM is offline
World Class ASE tech
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hills of TN
Age: 64
Posts: 704
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If I remember correctley it is about .008" per cc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008, 10:45 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 272
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
CC's off close Chmaber w/flattop

Thanks alot "RPM"
I am going to trust you and do the math to get
down to 94cc's which is roughly .048". I may just
go 0.060" like I was going to do in the first place.

Advice...?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008, 11:37 AM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 13,082
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 777
Thanked 1,057 Times in 879 Posts
Here's an article I wrote for the wiki. Once you get the heads on and torqued down for the final time, follow this procedure.
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...ad%2C_internal
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008, 11:55 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 272
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
CC's for Close heads, milled

Thank you "techinspector1"
I printed you article. Do you know anything about how much to mill
heads? I have BBC 063's which are 101cc's. I have flat top pistons
with 2 valve reliefs. I was going to mill these things .060" to get to
roughly 94cc's which should bump my CR up to 9.5:1-9.8:1.
Is this sound correct to you?
Thank you
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008, 12:04 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 13,082
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 777
Thanked 1,057 Times in 879 Posts
I think RPM hit the nail on the head pretty squarely at 0.008" per cc for a BBC. On most small blocks, it's around 0.007" per cc.

I very strongly suggest that you get a burrette, stand, some clear plexiglass or lexan and pour the heads yourself.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Once you've done your heads, spread the word that you'll cc a set of heads for $35. Three sets and your equipment is paid for. Leave a flyer at garages, speed shops, car clubs, Friday/Saturday nite car shows, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008, 12:14 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 272
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
CC of heads vs CR, BBC

i do not have extra money unfortunetly.
All I wanted was to increase the CR a few notchs.
Thought i would be safe in just taking a few .000"
off. They are already 101cc's which from the original heads
which were 118cc I think will help in itself, but will still be
less than 9:0 I believe. I am putting the 11-601-4 Compcam
hyd, headers, intake, 750-850cfm carb. i am not going to the
drags or Pinks..I may run it once just to see what it will do, but for
the most part it will just be the weekend warrior with the wife and/or
kids. BUT when by myself I am on it a lot and do want to blow some doors.
1965 Malibu's are pretty lite and with a BBC...
Help...?
Thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2008, 01:18 PM
Double_v23's Avatar
Horsepower Enthusiast
 

Last journal entry: Finished BMOD001FH
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Mooresville, NC
Posts: 1,495
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
I have a 65 skylark (same as the malibu) with a 496 and it is quite a wild ride when I step on the loud pedal. it is only 9.5:1 with about 600 hp. so I can vouch for the fun you are going to have.

I have to agree with the burette though. do the calculations and you may find that your compression is higher than you think.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2008, 01:29 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,153
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 5
Thanked 380 Times in 374 Posts
To restore the intake manifold port and bolt alignment after milling the head decks, you mill a percentage off the head's intake mating flange. I believe it is 125% of what ever amount you take off the decks.
Your machinist will know the exact percentage. It varies depending on the angle of the intake manifold port flange.
Do not cut the china walls of your block.
If the intake manifold bottom is too close the the china walls just take bit off the bottom of the intake manifold with a big electric 7" disc grinder/sander and 40grit paper, by hand after trial fitting the intake on the motor. The intake manifold bolt holes on the manifold may need to be drilled slightly bigger.
You want to CC your heads first before you start milling them. They are not always the same CC volume as claimed. Prior resurfacing will have reduced the chamber volume. Casting variances often make the chambers larger than spec.
Some of the BBC heads had different chamber volume on the same casting number used for different CID OEM motors. eg 396-427-454.
You can buy a graduated (ML) glass cylinder from most good local pharmacies
1 ML = 1 CC . Use an old CD-ROM disc to cover the cylinder deck. Apply some Noxzema on the cylinder deck and a little around the valve edges in the chamber to make a water proof seal so it does not leak. A lot easier to clean up than grease.
The Comp Mutha-Thumpr cam with its advanced 102 deg installed intake C/L
(cam card) is more likely to have a V-P clearance issue than the Isky cam I recomended.
These series cams are intentionally designed to maximize the "radical cam" sound at idle by using a tight LSA + over extended exhaust duration+ some installed cam advance to maximize overlap and early exhaust valve opening timing.
It's up to you to check and verify the valve to piston clearance.
Decking the block and milling the heads does reduce the V-P clearance.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 03-06-2008 at 01:38 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Valve Lash adjustment hiball Engine 36 05-11-2009 10:12 AM
Snowmobile compression relief valve - how to cboy General Rodding Tech 12 11-09-2006 11:58 AM
Bad Air Valve black66 Electrical 8 04-12-2005 12:44 PM
2 Valve Relief vs. 4 Valve Relief Chevy21 Engine 4 12-02-2004 01:07 PM
What is a 454 worth with a valve out? CrashFarmer2 Engine 11 10-20-2004 03:08 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.