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Old 02-05-2010, 04:38 PM
rbp rbp is offline
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ceramic pads question

hi everyone... I have questions regarding my rotors w/ ceramic pads.
I have sloteed/drill rotors in two of my rigs, one in my SUV and my Chevy K-2500. I went from regular rotors and metallic pads because they got some noise when I brake and the black dust in my wheels...hate it...Then I went to Brembo and SBC and ceramic pads in both rigs, the problem now is that after 3000 plus miles my rotors warp, I feel every time I brake hard and got worst then after.
Do I been using the wrong combo of pads and rotors?
Do I have to go back to metallic pads or something different?
By that way those ceramic last long time!

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Old 02-05-2010, 06:42 PM
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Wow, those slotted rotors should be doing good with the ceramic pads unless your not getting the torque even on the lug nuts.
Did you clean the anti rust compound off the new rotors before you installed them?
I had ceramic pads on standard rotors for 6000mi until I sold my firebird and had no issues with warpage but the rotors were wearing fast from all the heat
generated from the pads.
Are you having the same problem with both vehicles?
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sqzbox
Wow, those slotted rotors should be doing good with the ceramic pads unless your not getting the torque even on the lug nuts.
Did you clean the anti rust compound off the new rotors before you installed them?
I had ceramic pads on standard rotors for 6000mi until I sold my firebird and had no issues with warpage but the rotors were wearing fast from all the heat
generated from the pads.
Are you having the same problem with both vehicles?
Yes! and yes I have to torque the wheels they're not cheap (100 lbs) and yes I removed the anti rust Chemical off the rotors. I had this issues before and a friend (who owns a shop) said to go a little easy on the pads (heavy foot; gas and brake) but it has not improve. I took my Brembo to turn them and after 3000 miles started to do the same thing and in fact they are getting worse then before...
On my Truck the tires got so bad that sometimes hop when I brake... then I install those from the auto parts (piece of junk) and it takes forever to brake. Or I'm not use to anymore!
So, I need to know what combo can I use?
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Old 02-06-2010, 05:27 AM
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Well there you go! When you had them turned, you lost all the chamfers on all the holes. Sorry, I can't recommend a good rotor that won't warp.
Your right about the great feel and performance of the ceramic pad's. Their great and seem to get better when they get hot with no fade, but people (including myself) take advantage of that fact and wait till the last second to stomp on the brakes knowing their going to grab quick.
Like your mechanic said, "lighten up" on the brakes by stepping on the peddle sooner with less pressure and let the pads do the work.
I get on my wife all the time (to no avail) because she abuses the brakes by stomping on them at the last second building more heat and shortening the life of the brakes, especially the front's.
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Old 02-06-2010, 07:24 AM
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Both of those vehicles, IMHO, didn't have enough brakes to begin with, which, again, IMHO, makes it all the more critical to be sure the rear brakes are doing their part. If you have upgraded to larger rolling stock, 18" to 2X" wheels and tires, you need bigger brakes, period, again, IMHO. A given size rotor can only absorb so much heat before it starts self destructing, slotting and/or drilling and upgraded pads can change the performance characteristics somewhat, but only marginally, compared to increasing the swept and clamping areas by 15%~20%~25%.

Last edited by Rickracer; 02-06-2010 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickracer
Both of those vehicles, IMHO, didn't have enough brakes to begin with, which, again, IMHO, makes it all the more critical to be sure the rear brakes are doing their part. If you have upgraded to larger rolling stock, 18" to 2X" wheels and tires, you need bigger brakes, period, again, IMHO. A given size rotor can only absorb so much heat before it starts self destructing, slotting and/or drilling and upgraded pads can change the performance characteristics somewhat, but only marginally, compared to increasing the swept and clamping areas by 15%~20%~25%.
Why is it mandatory to go to larger brakes when installing larger diameter wheels?

The interesting thing about drilled and slotted rotors is that you are actually decreasing the braking surface area of the rotor.

Andy
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:24 PM
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I know I have to change my driving style... So that tell me I have to put up with it?
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Old 02-06-2010, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aosborn
Why is it mandatory to go to larger brakes when installing larger diameter wheels?

The interesting thing about drilled and slotted rotors is that you are actually decreasing the braking surface area of the rotor.

Andy
It's not mandatory, but the brakes on those trucks were insufficient to begin with, ( IMHO), and adding bigger, heavier wheels and tires, (flywheels, so to speak), you only tax them even worse. The taller the tire, the more "leverage" they have on the brakes, and the heavier they are, the more kinetic energy they store. Even with a just larger diameter rotor and the same calipers, you will have more braking force. Drilled and slotted rotors cool a little better, and brakes are all about transferring motion to heat, the more heat they can dissipate, the more efficient they will be.
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Old 02-06-2010, 08:35 PM
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To address the original question, if the rotors warp, it is either because they are made from poor grade material, are under-size for the application and overheat, or are sized ok but not allowed to cool properly. Since you "upgraded" the brakes with Brembo calipers and drilled and slotted rotors there are a couple of possible options. If the rotors you installed are larger diameter than stock, we can probably rule out the diameter as being too small. If the thickness of the rotors are the same or thicker than stock rotors, you can likely rule that out. That leaves inferior rotor material or lack of cooling. If the original rotors didn't warp and cooled ok and if the new rotors have well designed internal cooling fins that shouldn't be the problem. We are left with poor grade material in the rotor construction as the culprit. As I mentioned in my last post, if the rotors are the same diameter and thickness as stock, and then you drill holes and cut slots in them, you reduce the contact area for the pads so you have to apply more pressure for the same amount of stopping power creating more heat.

Pad material will make a huge difference in braking. What brand pads are you using? If they last a long time, it is because they are hard material and will need more pedal pressure for providing a similar amount of stopping power compared to a soft pad. Like everything else on a vehicle more is not necessarily better. A hard pad will last a long time, but may not be the best for your truck. I have used Performance Friction ceramic pads on many street cars with excellent results. You might want to give them a try.

Andy

As to Rickracer's comments, I would expect that a larger wheel/shorter tire combo would weigh less than a smaller wheel/large tire combination generally speaking. The overall diameter should be (if fitted properly) very close to stock to keep the vehicle speed sensor accurate for the speedometer and computer inputs.

You are correct on the flywheel affect increasing if we are talking about large diameter off road tires, but again with large diameter aluminum wheels and relatively shorter sidewall over height off road tires, the weight may not be that different than stock steel wheels and tall sidewall tires for example.

Last edited by aosborn; 02-06-2010 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 02-07-2010, 09:27 AM
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Andy, how many of those 20~26" wheels or wheel and tire combos have you weighed? Most of them I've seen are HEAVY, the tires may be a bit lighter, but the wheels more than make up for the difference in every case I've seen. Everything else you said is spot on, in my opinion,
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Old 02-07-2010, 09:36 AM
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Read this from Stop Tech: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
There is a lot of misinformation about "Warped Rotors"
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Old 02-07-2010, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickracer
Andy, how many of those 20~26" wheels or wheel and tire combos have you weighed? Most of them I've seen are HEAVY, the tires may be a bit lighter, but the wheels more than make up for the difference in every case I've seen. Everything else you said is spot on, in my opinion,
That is probably true in a majority of cases Rickracer, the cheaper the wheels cost the more they weigh generally...and the cheap ones are popular...

Have a good one!
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