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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2006, 09:53 PM
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Another thing that that might be of interest, is whatever finish you put on your frame, how will you clean, or wax or whatever to it.

I know epoxy primer will shine up with a california duster, but if you have another type of finish, you will probably have to wax it, like clear coat on a body, needs to be waxed once in a while, just running a couple things by here.

Rob

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2006, 11:12 PM
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It also needs to be said that epoxy primer is not designed to be used as a top coat. Yes, I swear by epoxy also, I never leave bare metal without it. But, I expect that if you contacted a "tech rep" (not a sales rep) in most any product line they would advise against leaving it permanently uncovered. Epoxies are designed to stick, and seal, but, do not contain UV protection and other protective properties like a "top-coat". And, will "eventually" break down.
With that said, I agree with the idea that in most cases it will last just fine. Although, there are risks that it may not (forever?).
Yes, I also know paint doesn't last "forever". But, I'm certain that painted over epoxy would out last just bare epoxy.
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Old 09-26-2006, 11:50 PM
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Thus my point about simply applying a few coats of urethane SS over it. Heck, no sanding, it is like you are adding a few more coats of what you already did, not a lot of work, why not?

Brian
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Old 09-27-2006, 12:30 AM
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I just looked my chassis over today, and its been about two years since I painted it, and it still looks as good as these pictures yet today.

Brian, your suggestion of painting over epoxy is probably a good idea, but you said it wasn't a lot of work.

To paint a chassis and make it look this good, is harder to do then painting a car, you have to carry a light in one hand to get inside the frame rails and under the spring pockets, trust me, I used supplied air and I was in there for a long time.

Also a regular hvlp gun won't work with a cup on it. I used a binks # 7 to do it.

I made hangers that go inside the frame body support holes so nothing touched the outside of the frame, I hung it about four feet off the ground, so your on your knees and crouching under, it's a bear.

Also with only one guy painting you have to watch the overspray.

Plus I'm not very good at painting to start with.

Anyway just epoxy is still looking pretty good

Rob

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Old 09-27-2006, 01:01 AM
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Heres some more.

I don't think it really matters what you put on a frame, one is about as good as the other, some are faster then others, a frame is a secondary item on a restoration, after all, 99.9% of the people doing these don't really care that much about the finish of a frame.

If they did care they wouldn't be talking about powder coat and por15.

I know we don't consider these two for the outside of the body, so it really doesn't matter.

So if you take the .1% of the ones that really want to put the time in it, then it's filler, and about 4 to 500 hours to do it.

And it's probably a pretty good bet that there going to use some kind of paint, and not por15 or powdercoat.

Rob
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2006, 05:54 AM
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RobSS is right epoxy primer, will not last forever. It will last a long time, and probably about as long as the other suggestions. I have a 31 Model A Tudor that was sprayed with epoxy in 1992. The body has sat in the garage for most of that time, except the 2-3 years it sat outside under a cheap tarp that shreaded. The epoxy has held up very well considering how much stuff that has been thrown at it in the garage.

Epoxy primer does not have the UV protection that you would want if it is going to be in direct sunlight. Hopefully the frame is not going to be in direct sunlight.

If you can get the color/look that you want with epoxy, why would you want to go thru the trouble of spraying something over it. It is alot of work to spray a frame to get proper coverage.

Aaron
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Old 09-27-2006, 08:32 AM
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you guy's are right about a top coat. i am not sure how that got off track to just leaving the epoxy primer, that was never my intentions.
Quote:
i have a new set of HVLP guns to spray the epoxy primer, and paint. i am thinking 1 quart primer and 1 quart paint. this should run about $100, and it should be enough to paint the frame, gas tank,control arms,sway bar, and all steering linkages. keeping in mind that all pieces will be cleaned and hanging to be painted at the same time.but the top coat is my concern
what is a Bink's #7? the HVLP set i have has a detail gun. is that the same?
here is a link to the guns that are similar to the one i have. i know..i know there not the best. my local auto parts store mixes and sells paint, and had a set of these things for a $150. they said the guys who paint for a living have been buying them and using them at home on side jobs and leave the big $$$$ guns at work.
http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?P...OD&ProdID=8181http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=8181

i am also wondering why Martin said urethane for a top coat. is that better than a enamel? easier to use? touch-up down the road easier? i will buy it and use it, if we think it will hold up better.

i know we said epoxy primer was the way to go on bare metal. but i haven't heard anything about zinc chromate primer. this was just a passing thought.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2006, 12:56 PM
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A binks #7 is a siphon feed type gun, a lot of guys used them years ago before hvlp guns came in.

I used a 36sd air cap, and a 36 fluid needle which will spray epoxy and z-chrome sprayable body filler really nice.

Trying to spray inside a frame with the hvlp gun is hard to do, because the cup on top gets in the way.

And it doesn't matter how much light you have in a spray booth, you still need a hand held light to spray these frames.

I also switched out all my air line couplers to the 5/16'' id.

I use a cheap hand held six volt light with a new battery and spray two good wet coats. Inside the frame rails are the hardest to spray on the whole frame.

Without a good light you will either spray it dry or get runs in it.

Rob

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2006, 01:05 PM
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light

i did't think of that....thanks. better to start out right, rather than clean the gun, go to the store, buy batterys, then come back and remix the paint.
WOW
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2006, 07:17 PM
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I have some stuff I posted about z-chrome sprayable body filler and some other tips on painting these frames, I could find those if you want all of it, it's scattered around on different forums?

Rob

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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2006, 10:31 PM
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I start by degreasing the frame then sandblast it, spray two coats of black epoxy primer and allow to cure overnight, next day apply two-three coats of BLACK featherfill G2 primer where needed and sand with 180 then 320, prime with two more coats of black epoxy then two coats of Akzo Nobel Sikkens Autocryl Rally Black satin urethane. You can't beat the durability and look and all your coatings used are black so any future stone chips don't show very much. If you're not concerned with smoothing the frame or any rust pit repair then the Featherfill and sanding part can be omitted. The urethane topcoat provides more scratch/scuff resistance and also UV protection, and it looks better. Coat the inside of the frame with a cavity wax after all the paint work is done. It'll last forever. Bob
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Old 09-28-2006, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddbob
Coat the inside of the frame with a cavity wax after all the paint work is done.
What's that? Where? How do you apply it? That's the first time I've seen that idea pop up in doing frames and it's very interesting.

Not quite the same as boxing the frame, welding on a pipe nipple and cap, and pouring waste oil in it every now and then, I'll bet. Hmm, could provide a very large oil sump and cooler, though.
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Old 09-28-2006, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grouch

Not quite the same as boxing the frame, welding on a pipe nipple and cap, and pouring waste oil in it every now and then, I'll bet. Hmm, could provide a very large oil sump and cooler, though.
It's the same idea Coat the inside of the boxed areas so all surfaces are protected. Transtar's Amber Coating is a self healing cavity waxed spray that comes in aresol cans. They also offer economical 48" flexible spray wands with a 360 degree spray head that attach to the can that works really slick. 3M's Rustfighter is very simlar, Amsoil's HD is also some really good stuff. The military designed Cosmoline also works really well. Bob

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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2006, 10:07 PM
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Sorry if I offend

Bad Bob is right, I've shot that Sikken's rally black, it's a pretty nice semi-gloss finish that definitely is tough. I've been at a high-line shop that used it on there work-benches.

As for the reference to the "1% group"?

I apologize if you think I'm being absurd.

It is just that, I do that quality of work daily. I form my opinions with experience in restoration and collision repair. In my years (1987-2001)in the collision industry I gained knowledge about productivity, many innovative products, late-model autos, color manipulation, and (if I may say) excellent prep and application skills. I've worked on Lian Ryhm's Series 1 Cobra, Ricky Anderson's 01 Carbon Fiber Lingenfelter Corvette, and Datt Win's 01 BMW 8 series. Now, (since 01) I've been doing restoration work. I've done 3 cars on the cover of Chevy High Performance Mag. Others Mag cover include Mustang Monthly and Popular Hot Rodding. Anyway, I'm not trying to "toot my horn". I just appreciate the "1%" of the people that respect when a car is done (what I consider to be) "right". There money pays my bills. And that is what I share here "my opinion" of what is "right".

You don't need a siphon-feed gun to do a frame. I've done many without. But I'm thinking you will need more than a quart of paint and epoxy. Probably all of 2 quarts of each.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2006, 10:52 PM
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Colormecrazy, appreciate your comments, the one tooting your own horn, same here, professionals like yourself have taught me a lot of what i know right now about bodywork, I spend 4 to 8 hours a day on four different car forums, its a free education, and I really appreciate it.

But, you made the magazines, and that is a clear indication of the quality of your work, but what I was referring to, the .1 don't even want to do a frame like this.

I still don't think it is possible to paint inside those frame rails, and under those frame pockets with an overhead cupped gun, unless you're spraying through a tube.

The pictures I have on my site are really close up of those areas, and tooting my horn, I have not seen one in the last two years on any of these sites, and I look at every one i can.

Painting a hot rod or a straight frame, there are a lot of them that are far better then what I have.

But if you didn't spend at least 400 hours on any one of your muscle car chassis, then its practically impossible to do it.

But if you could get me some close up pictures of that kind of work, I would really like to see it.

Because of my lack of experience, at different times i will bring in a professional body shop man to bail me out, I have three different ones, there all older guys, and one is retired, but I owe most of this quality of work to them, but I enjoy sanding, but thats just me.

Have a good one.

Rob
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