[Yachtsman]

I used to own a motor factors when unleaded petrol came to the UK. First all the older mainly British cars burned valves and got junked any older British cars left the fuel seals eroded and gave out when the oil companies started to use ethanol as an octane booster, but every one who said that brass and aluminium parts in cars was proved wrong. Ethanol does erode some rubber parts designed to be used with leaded petrol but the seals in Webber's and Fords generally have seals that were made for many markets and even those in cars as old as mine are nearly always resistant.

[gearheadslife]

when you us a fuel that it take 30% more to do the same as the old fuel and to get a gallon of said fuel takes 2+ gallons of the old fuel to make one gallon of the new fuel..
you are wasting energy..
in other words if you have to burn 2 gallons of fuel to get one gallon and then that one gallon only will go 2/3rd of the same distance as the old fuel you used to form the new fuel..
you can't sustain that.. and it's a fools game..
as far as e85 being cheaper than race fuel.. it is not..
and never will be... you pay the difference in your taxes as they subsidize ethnol.. and that will be on the cutting block as the us is broke..
the true cost of ethnol need to be reported.. cause it is a wastefull fuel to bring to market.. and very costly once you take the subsides away...
you know the subsides everyone wants to take from the oil companies...

[Yachtsman]

I agree, in the US both the oil companies get a subsidy and the farmers who grow the corn get a subsidy. ALL fuel subsidies should stop! And then research into Brackish water algae would happen. Even now it can make make the raw materials for Ethanol, biodiesel and something that the Australian Air force can use as jet fuel and much cheaper than fossil oil, When I asked a Proffeser at Michigan State the ratio of energy of Ethanol and gasoline he said 70%.

[1Gary]

We know that E85 adds moisture to fuel in storage.That the blue Stab-bil is the way to remove and stabilize the fuel removing the moisture.

[hcompton]

Originally Posted by Yachtsman

I agree, in the US both the oil companies get a subsidy and the farmers who grow the corn get a subsidy. ALL fuel subsidies should stop! And then research into Brackish water algae would happen. Even now it can make make the raw materials for Ethanol, biodiesel and something that the Australian Air force can use as jet fuel and much cheaper than fossil oil, When I asked a Proffeser at Michigan State the ratio of energy of Ethanol and gasoline he said 70%.

You do not understand fuel density. Look at the hydro carbon content in the fuels. It is not a secret the oil companies are hiding from you. gasoline has the most hydrocarbons of any fuel per pound that can be used in a IC none desiel engine.

Go to the race track and talk to the guys that run methanol they will set you striaght they use gallons of fuel to run the 1/4 mile. same power can be made with less than a gallon of gasoline.

Gasoline has not improved over the years. It has gotten worse. 104 real lead is not a new product it was availbe at the pump in us for 25 cents a gallon in the 1960s. now we are stuck with at best 94 but that is hard to find only 92 is avilable at every station.

Natural gas and hydrogen will both run and engine with good power and economy. If you are for real this is the right direction. Hydrogen is the highest density that is possible plain and simple all other fuel are rated on there hydrogen content or Hydrocarbon content. But the fuel part is not carbon its hydrogen. Solving the real issue of cracking hydrogen from water will solve the fuel problems over night. Plain and simple it can be used to make electrity and provide 100% pure water as a by product. Also only out put water for the most part when burned in IC engines. But it is extreamly dangerous to have a 3000 psi cylinder in your car and driving around with it all the time. It also burns with an invisible flame making it even more dangerous in a vehicle. SO ethanol and gas are used as a suspension that greatly improves saftey and storage concerns. One look at the periodic table will show you why you cant get a potenial energy without splitting atoms.

[Yachtsman]

I would have said if asked that fuel density is the number of carbon to carbon bonds per litre of fuel.
I do think that gasoline/petrol has much too many that's why engine exhausts need a cat'
I also feel that the oxygen in ethanol improves the combustion.
The problem with petrol/gasoline is every sample is different, I never liked organic chemistry because you never new what was in a sample.

[Yachtsman]

Originally Posted by 1Gary

We know that E85 adds moisture to fuel in storage.That the blue Stab-bil is the way to remove and stabilize the fuel removing the moisture.

If you mean ethanol is hyroscopic it is it won't mix with gasoline unless it's chemically dried. Chemically drying ethanol is very expensive and very energy intensive and quite pointless ethanol fuel burns well enough with 2% water in it. If you leave E85 in an open container it will absorb water from the air and the gas will separate out. once its got that 2% its happy. In Brazil they sell ethanol 2% water (Alkohol in Portuguese) in every gas station and it's cheap really cheap.

[Yachtsman]

Originally Posted by gearheadslife

when you us a fuel that it take 30% more to do the same as the old fuel and to get a gallon of said fuel takes 2+ gallons of the old fuel to make one gallon of the new fuel..
you are wasting energy..
in other words if you have to burn 2 gallons of fuel to get one gallon and then that one gallon only will go 2/3rd of the same distance as the old fuel you used to form the new fuel..
you can't sustain that.. and it's a fools game..
as far as e85 being cheaper than race fuel.. it is not..
and never will be... you pay the difference in your taxes as they subsidize ethnol.. and that will be on the cutting block as the us is broke..
the true cost of ethnol need to be reported.. cause it is a wastefull fuel to bring to market.. and very costly once you take the subsides away...
you know the subsides everyone wants to take from the oil companies...

Ethanol is less energy dense than petrol/gasoline but it is often proportionally cheaper so you should do the same miles per gallon. I think the gasoline subsidies should come off too

[hcompton]

Originally Posted by Yachtsman

If you mean ethanol is hyroscopic it is it won't mix with gasoline unless it's chemically dried. Chemically drying ethanol is very expensive and very energy intensive and quite pointless ethanol fuel burns well enough with 2% water in it. If you leave E85 in an open container it will absorb water from the air and the gas will separate out. once its got that 2% its happy. In Brazil they sell ethanol 2% water (Alkohol in Portuguese) in every gas station and it's cheap really cheap.

Now if you can just get sugar cane to grow in the uk and your set.

Cars in brazil run like *****... Ethanol is not a good fuel for hp or milage. Its only the next cheapest thing to oil. Most race cars run methonal which has some very unquie properties. The more water ethanol picks up the thicker it flows and the leaner your engine will be. You can only jet for one type of fuel too much water and it will start to effect performance.

[gearheadslife]

Originally Posted by Yachtsman

Ethanol is less energy dense than petrol/gasoline but it is often proportionally cheaper so you should do the same miles per gallon. I think the gasoline subsidies should come off too

it's not cheaper.. never has been and never will be.. fuel of the future..
fuelcell cars are... and if it wasn't for politics g.m. volt would be a fuelcell car.. obama had the project shelved...

[Yachtsman]

The days of petroleum products like petrol/gasoline being the cheapest fuels to use are gone, its time we all manned up, crude oil is running out. An engine can be built that has the HP and do the mileage of a petrol engine. Most of the tuning tricks that have been learned with petrol engines. petrol is just a mixture of random organics. We can easily put a blend together a mixture that is cheaper than petrol has been for years.

[hcompton]

Originally Posted by Yachtsman

The days of petroleum products like petrol/gasoline being the cheapest fuels to use are gone, its time we all manned up, crude oil is running out. An engine can be built that has the HP and do the mileage of a petrol engine. Most of the tuning tricks that have been learned with petrol engines. petrol is just a mixture of random organics. We can easily put a blend together a mixture that is cheaper than petrol has been for years.

Bio desiel is the only one that will work and can be done at home since no store or gas station sells this mythgas you speak of.

Methanol is easier to get than ethanol and is cheaper but has less energy density. But you can atleast get your local heating oil company to bring you a few barrels eveymonth since it a by product of oil production. Usally burnt off as waste or used for low heat fuel but it does not produce enough heat to be usable as heat source for most applications. But will allow you to run 13:1 compression or higher if setup correctly. Also has the added effect of evapoating and cooling the intake can carb to the point the sweat like a ice cold glass.

[gearheadslife]

Originally Posted by Yachtsman

The days of petroleum products like petrol/gasoline being the cheapest fuels to use are gone, its time we all manned up, crude oil is running out. An engine can be built that has the HP and do the mileage of a petrol engine. Most of the tuning tricks that have been learned with petrol engines. petrol is just a mixture of random organics. We can easily put a blend together a mixture that is cheaper than petrol has been for years.

not this b/s again.. wasn't we to run out in like 85 and then it was like 97,
then 2004, come on..

ethnol takes more energy to make than it produces.. a fuelcell.. can get it's fuel from water.. and when you take the fuel out you still are left with 100% water.. and the emissions is water.. ethnol is a fools game.. even use'n ethnol to heat the sugars to make ethnol. it takes more fuel to go through the prossess to get ethnol.. than you make.. 1/2 acre of crops makes 22-26 gallons of ethnol.. but you'll burn 37-42 gallons try'n to make that 22-26 gallons.. not very bright.. and wastefull..

[hcompton]

Originally Posted by gearheadslife

not this b/s again.. wasn't we to run out in like 85 and then it was like 97,
then 2004, come on..

ethnol takes more energy to make than it produces.. a fuelcell.. can get it's fuel from water.. and when you take the fuel out you still are left with 100% water.. and the emissions is water.. ethnol is a fools game.. even use'n ethnol to heat the sugars to make ethnol. it takes more fuel to go through the prossess to get ethnol.. than you make.. 1/2 acre of crops makes 22-26 gallons of ethnol.. but you'll burn 37-42 gallons try'n to make that 22-26 gallons.. not very bright.. and wastefull..

Yep brazilian burn the stalks of the sugar cane and run the stihls at lower temps. Since the sugar has a high alchol producing potential it is way more effeicent to make it in there area of the world only. It does not work any where else. It also makes an aweful smoke and polution. They also burn the rain forest wood to make it all work. It is not and enviromently friendly deal.

[hcompton]

Here this actually works if the hydrogen comes from water wit solar or other renewable power.

United Nuclear - Hydrogen Fuel Systems

Its also a lot safer since the gas is not stored in liquid form.