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Old 09-30-2011, 11:32 AM
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Check your Moser Axles.....

Some of you may remember a thread I started a while back about the problems I was having with my custom built 9 inch.

Yukon 3.75 gears for Ford 9 inch....noise

Well needless to say I have been threw hell with this rear end trying to figure out why it is making so much gear noise and why it is eating up ring and pinions. I have been changing parts around thinking they are bad. I have had at least 4 ring and pinions in it, 3 different cases, 1 original Ford, the Yukon threw bolt, and now a Strange Nodular. The same result every time. I can get picture perfect patterns on the bench but as soon as I stick the center section in the car the drive pattern moves to the outer edge of the tooth and just chews itself up under load.

I have had my housing checked with a straight bar threw it and it was not even a 1/16" off at each end. I went on and had it straighten dead straight with the bar threw it, now it is perfect. I put it back together and was still getting the same thing. Really loud almost grinding gear noise.

At this point the only thing that I have not checked is the Moser axles. Oh, but these bad *** Moser axles have to be right because they are brand new and cost $500.00...right? Wrong. The first time I ordered the axles from them one of them was an inch to short, they admitted it was their fault and sent me one the right length. Well this is the second one they sent me in the video. I donít know who they have running the lathe or cutting/machining axles over there but they need their *** kicked and should be fired. The last time I put the rear in the car after I drove it and it sounded like ****, I put it on jack stands and ran at idle in 6th gear and notice my passenger side wheel wobbling. More up and down than side to side, but wait these are bad *** Moser axles, that canít be...my 10 bolt doesnt even do that, sorry I am just really pissed.

The axles are straight but the longer of the 2 or my passenger side axle is machined .015 off center where the wheel bearing is pressed on causing my wheel to wobble. Well when the car is on the ground and the wheel bearing is being held in by the retaining plate and the housing the wobble is being transferred into the center section causing all kinds of **** to happen. With .008 backlash and an axle with .015 run out wobbling it doesnít take a genius to figure out what is going to happen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMLouIGd53k


Here is what the gears have been doing, look at the top left corner of the drive side of the ring gear and you can see where it has been running.





Here are pictures of the patterns I have been getting, I think they look pretty danm good.






This shows the uneven wear pattern on the carrier/posi bearings showing that it has been wobbling.




I will be in contact with them and will be posting my progress on this thread. If they dont take care of me, I will dog the **** out of them all over every forum I am a member off and then some.

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Old 09-30-2011, 12:37 PM
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OK so you got a bad axle, **** happens, but it sounds like you are a bit premature in knocking Moser and are assuming they won't step up...
Give them a chance and then report back.....

edit: hey that was cool, I used a naughty word and it came out as ****
well you get my drift....
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Old 09-30-2011, 12:55 PM
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I have not even started to knock them yet. After what I have been threw, I have a reason to be mad. If you pay $500 for axles you should expect them to be right. Thats the reason it was the last thing I checked. Most people do not have means to check axles on a lathe to see if they are straight, nor should they have too. I have ruined at least 3 ring and pinions, plus all the time I have spent pulling the thing out and putting it back in. Its almost been a year since I started this project.

I am being told by the vendor that I bought the axles from that Moser will take care of me on this, so we shall see.

Last edited by 96lt4c4; 09-30-2011 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:01 PM
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Ok, your dial indicator set up is good. From the looks of it, the axel shaft, bearing surface and seal surface all run out about the same. Is it possible to support the axel by the bearing surface with a center rest. Adjust this to run true and check the axel center by the flange. The centerdrilled hole. It would not be unreasonable for this to be out due to nicks or damage thus your indicator runout.
Also check the face of the flange and the center register. You may be able to carefully check the stud runout too. Mark everything to show relationships and photograph it well..

The axel between the spline and the bearing may run out some. I have about .030 in my resplined ones. I've seen more. New ones as yours should be pretty close however.

Ring gears:
The one with the orange color. If this is the drive side pattern it is almost exactly like the Strange Funnycar rearend I just finished. There was about .060 too much pinion shim before the pattern even became close to centered. The coast side didn't even print. I finished with only .015 shim. This was exactly the depth required as noted on the pinion. Someone added a bunch of shims at one time for some stupid reason. The R&P had completely failed about 400 feet out.

The others look ok, I would move the pattern a bit more to the drive toe. maybe a .005 shim +/- what ever it takes.

The bearing race is not too clear but it doesn't look good for a few miles.

Also look for some burrs in the case around the bearings and make sure the caps haven't been switched. Had it happen to a backyard install. Also check the pinion support bearing on the inside of the case. I had one of these cracked and it caused all kinds of problems. Strange has a piece machined and pinned so you can replace this on the FC housings. Obviously it happens a lot. Just installed one.

Make sure the axels are not bottoming out on the pin.

JMHO trying to cover you while on base. haha my sr. baseball showing thru.

Aren't rear ends fun?? I've done 3 Dana 60's, a 9 in, and a Strange FC rear end in the last 3 weeks. Sick of them.

If you are really going after the supplier make sure of your documentation. Make it clear and understandable. It looks like you have the knowledge and tools to do the job correctly.
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Old 10-01-2011, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentwings
Ok, your dial indicator set up is good. From the looks of it, the axel shaft, bearing surface and seal surface all run out about the same. Is it possible to support the axel by the bearing surface with a center rest. Adjust this to run true and check the axel center by the flange. The centerdrilled hole. It would not be unreasonable for this to be out due to nicks or damage thus your indicator runout.
Also check the face of the flange and the center register. You may be able to carefully check the stud runout too. Mark everything to show relationships and photograph it well..

The axel between the spline and the bearing may run out some. I have about .030 in my resplined ones. I've seen more. New ones as yours should be pretty close however.

Ring gears:
The one with the orange color. If this is the drive side pattern it is almost exactly like the Strange Funnycar rearend I just finished. There was about .060 too much pinion shim before the pattern even became close to centered. The coast side didn't even print. I finished with only .015 shim. This was exactly the depth required as noted on the pinion. Someone added a bunch of shims at one time for some stupid reason. The R&P had completely failed about 400 feet out.

The others look ok, I would move the pattern a bit more to the drive toe. maybe a .005 shim +/- what ever it takes.

The bearing race is not too clear but it doesn't look good for a few miles.

Also look for some burrs in the case around the bearings and make sure the caps haven't been switched. Had it happen to a backyard install. Also check the pinion support bearing on the inside of the case. I had one of these cracked and it caused all kinds of problems. Strange has a piece machined and pinned so you can replace this on the FC housings. Obviously it happens a lot. Just installed one.

Make sure the axels are not bottoming out on the pin.

JMHO trying to cover you while on base. haha my sr. baseball showing thru.

Aren't rear ends fun?? I've done 3 Dana 60's, a 9 in, and a Strange FC rear end in the last 3 weeks. Sick of them.

If you are really going after the supplier make sure of your documentation. Make it clear and understandable. It looks like you have the knowledge and tools to do the job correctly.

Thanks for the reply, at this point I am about to stop moding my car because the aftermarket parts have just went ot crap. I mean am is supose to check everything I buy with a fine tooth comb to make sure that its right. I am just really aggravated.

I talked to the vendor, not mentioning name, last night. They looked at the video and said that is not the way to measure an axle for run out. Bull ****.

The video I made at work, which I didnít have time to pull the studs out, or take the backing plate and bearings off. So I took them both to a friendís house last night and pressed the wheel bearings off, took the studs out so that I just had a bare axle. I laid the axle in V blocks at the splines and where the wheel bearing goes. Both of these areas should be dead straight. Guess what .015 to .017 run out on the flange where the wheel bolts. It doesnít matter how you check it the run out will still be there it just moves around depending on where you check it. I measured the other one the same way and it still shows straight.

They told me to call Moser and that I need to send it to them and they will determine if its bad/bent or whatever. I have read on other forums about guys sending them bent axles and getting the same one back that has been straightened. The other problem with these axles is the hub centric in the middle of the axle does not engage the wheel; it does not stick out far enough. Your wheel is relying on the suds to center the wheel. Well with screw in studs, with lock washers behind them, the studs do not stick out straight. I am probably going to run the studs without the lock washers behind them. If you look at a 10 bolt axle the centric sticks out at least 1.5".

In the pic of the bearing race you can see how the wear pattern gets really narrow then widens back out, the the carrier has been wobbling.
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Old 10-01-2011, 11:31 AM
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Ever since the old man died Mosier has been going down hill. I dropped off my 9" 31 spline axles when I was in the area to have them shortened and two weeks later when they shipped them back to me one axle had the large 9" bolt pattern flange and the other had the small 9" flange. So they didn't even send me MY axles back! They did send me a free adapter kit after I called them about it BUT... only poor quality control could cause that kind of stupid mistake. It just makes you wonder what other mistakes they're making. One things for sure, I'll never use them again.

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Old 10-03-2011, 11:48 AM
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Just got off the phone with Moser. They are more than willing to help me out and are being really nice about it. I am going to send them the axle and let them take a look at it. I am a little happier now.
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Old 10-03-2011, 11:54 AM
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You sure that using lock washers is the correct way to secure the studs? Not saying you are wrong- just that I've never heard of using them on wheel studs. I'm thinking you want the stud to have full "engagement" against the back of the axle flange, and you wouldn't want them crooked.
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Old 10-03-2011, 06:53 PM
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I was going to ask the same question. I screw the stud bolts in and tIG weld part way around them. Once you have one gall up on a wheel nut you will see why.

Re lockwashers,

Back in my mech eng days there was a study done on washers and lockwashers lock nuts and jamb nuts. Not a single lock washer passed vibration tests. However properly torqued bolts held up to the same vibration tests. We had vibration testing machines and tried the same tests and sure enough the lock washers failed. Since then I have not used a lock washer on anything. I don't even have any in my nut and bolt boxes.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
You sure that using lock washers is the correct way to secure the studs? Not saying you are wrong- just that I've never heard of using them on wheel studs. I'm thinking you want the stud to have full "engagement" against the back of the axle flange, and you wouldn't want them crooked.

Thats the way they were shipped to me. The studs screw in from the back with lock washers between the stud and the back of the wheel flange. I am going to remove the washers and just run the head of the stud up to the flange, with some loctite.

And yes I think the washers are whats making the studs crooked
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:35 AM
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The moser axles in my quick performance 9" came the same way, lock washers under the bolt head for the studs. I've driven the car very little as of now but havn't noticed any vibration. If the studs are bent wouldn't that mean the holes are drilled crooked? I'm not seeing how a lock washer on the back side of the flange could make the stud bend, maybe the bolt head IDK.
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Old 10-04-2011, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96lt4c4
Thats the way they were shipped to me. The studs screw in from the back with lock washers between the stud and the back of the wheel flange. I am going to remove the washers and just run the head of the stud up to the flange, with some loctite.

And yes I think the washers are whats making the studs crooked
That's a new one on me. The lock washers should press down flat. If the split is made crudely, there could be a 'tag' of steel raised up at the split. But I think Moser would be using a high quality lock washer so if the studs appear to not be straight out of the axle flange, check to see that the threaded holes are true and that the studs themselves (along w/the washers, obviously) are also to spec. The 7/16" and 1/2" lock washers I looked at over at Grainger had a +0.010" tolerance for thickness.

I looked up a photo so everyone can see what the Moser stud set-up looks like.

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Old 10-04-2011, 11:58 AM
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When I had the axles in the car, the car running on jackstands, in 6th gear, no wheels or brake rotors, I could see the studs moving around all over the place. Not to mention the axle wobble. I am going to try it without the washers and see what happens.
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:16 PM
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Once again, I'd get rid of those lock washers. Just screw the bolts in and Tig weld them on two opposite flats. We have been doing this ever since screw in studs were invented.

Otherwise you will be posting "How do get my wheel nut off...stud came loose" haha I did warn you twice
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentwings
Once again, I'd get rid of those lock washers. Just screw the bolts in and Tig weld them on two opposite flats. We have been doing this ever since screw in studs were invented.

Otherwise you will be posting "How do get my wheel nut off...stud came loose" haha I did warn you twice

Will do. Thanks
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