Chemical dip for engine blocks - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Garage - Tools
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2006, 12:06 PM
Redman Racing
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Age: 33
Posts: 235
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I was talking to a zep chemist (at least that is who they said they were transferring me to). I was talking to him and said plain and simple to him that i want a chemical that I can dip the block in and it will come out like new. No paint, no rust, no grease and no bull crap. He told told me that they have a particular cleaner for iron and steel called Formula 11263 low foam Stripper and Rust Remover.

% by weight

Sodium Hydroxide 50-60%

Sodium Carbonate 10-20%

Resin/Rosin Acids <3

Sounds like some pretty serious stuff. Safety first for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He said that it works best at 160-180 and that it needed to be agitated.

I have a neighbor that is into chemistry himself and he said just air agitation is enough so the chemicals don't clump an the bottom. He also said the their is no need to heat it because it is powerful enough on its own. Plus I don't know where to get a electric heating element the with withstand that harsh a chemical.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2006, 12:16 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Agua Dulce Calif.
Posts: 328
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
sounds like red devil lye almost to me, if it don't eat the block the electric water heater element will most likely survive the lye, anyway a buddy of mine did it that way he says. ED


Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsmo
I was talking to a zep chemist (at least that is who they said they were transferring me to). I was talking to him and said plain and simple to him that i want a chemical that I can dip the block in and it will come out like new. No paint, no rust, no grease and no bull crap. He told told me that they have a particular cleaner for iron and steel called Formula 11263 low foam Stripper and Rust Remover.

% by weight

Sodium Hydroxide 50-60%

Sodium Carbonate 10-20%

Resin/Rosin Acids <3

Sounds like some pretty serious stuff. Safety first for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He said that it works best at 160-180 and that it needed to be agitated.

I have a neighbor that is into chemistry himself and he said just air agitation is enough so the chemicals don't clump an the bottom. He also said the their is no need to heat it because it is powerful enough on its own. Plus I don't know where to get a electric heating element the with withstand that harsh a chemical.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2006, 12:30 PM
Redman Racing
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Age: 33
Posts: 235
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
It's funny you said something about the Red Devil lye, my Neighbor that I mentioned had it laying around and showed it to me. Now the lye is only one part of the chemical make-up. Trying to figure out what the rest of the chemicals are for. He said that Sodium Hydroxide(lye) is as cheap as dirt and that he can make the formula for me if Zep wants to much $$$$$.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2006, 12:36 PM
Redman Racing
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Age: 33
Posts: 235
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed ke6bnl
sounds like red devil lye almost to me, if it don't eat the block the electric water heater element will most likely survive the lye, anyway a buddy of mine did it that way he says. ED

I thought the water heating element was aluminum and copper. Only installed them never had to change an element. Anyway when aluminum mixes with the lye it starts to eat it and give off hydrogen. Sounds dangerous. Hydrogen and electric don't mix very well, every heard of a battery exploding.

I just called a Pluming supply shop, they said that the covering on the element is steel. All sounds good.

Last edited by oldsmo; 06-29-2006 at 01:12 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2006, 03:03 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,912
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Olds, Nothing high tech about that formula that's what I was talking about earlier and it has been used for years, it does work but it really should be heated to get it's full potential. Now for the bad part, this stuff is DANGEROUS! and the hazards are not to be taken lightly. It can cause severe skin burns and blindness so if you do decide to use this stuff be very careful with it. Also it is not something that you can just pour out in your driveway or someplace similar to get rid of, it is considered hazardous waste. It can be used safely with a bit of caution but it is not something that should be used with a poorly designed dip tank since a spill in your garage or near your house of a quantity large enough to dip an engine block in could be a major problem. BE CAREFUL with this stuff!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2006, 03:47 PM
Redman Racing
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Age: 33
Posts: 235
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
Olds, Nothing high tech about that formula that's what I was talking about earlier and it has been used for years, it does work but it really should be heated to get it's full potential. Now for the bad part, this stuff is DANGEROUS! and the hazards are not to be taken lightly. It can cause severe skin burns and blindness so if you do decide to use this stuff be very careful with it. Also it is not something that you can just pour out in your driveway or someplace similar to get rid of, it is considered hazardous waste. It can be used safely with a bit of caution but it is not something that should be used with a poorly designed dip tank since a spill in your garage or near your house of a quantity large enough to dip an engine block in could be a major problem. BE CAREFUL with this stuff!
Thanks for the warning. I still haven't exactly chosen what I an going to do. If I do go with this a will have to go get some nice long rubber gloves and a slash shield. Like I said before I will be careful, I am way too young to have to explain to people why I can't see anymore. I rent a large garage that is not attached to any home. The guy I rent off is owns an auto body shop. He is the one that said he will order it for me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2006, 09:20 PM
Redman Racing
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Age: 33
Posts: 235
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsmo
I was talking to a zep chemist (at least that is who they said they were transferring me to). I was talking to him and said plain and simple to him that i want a chemical that I can dip the block in and it will come out like new. No paint, no rust, no grease and no bull crap. He told told me that they have a particular cleaner for iron and steel called Formula 11263 low foam Stripper and Rust Remover.

% by weight

Sodium Hydroxide 50-60%

Sodium Carbonate 10-20%

Resin/Rosin Acids <3

Sounds like some pretty serious stuff. Safety first for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He said that it works best at 160-180 and that it needed to be agitated.

Well Zep wants 300$$$$ for 125lbs(their smallest) container. Does that sound like allot for basic everyday chemicals.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2006, 10:32 PM
OneMoreTime's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Health and safety in the shop or garage
Last journal entry: Yard Dog pic
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington State
Age: 69
Posts: 7,371
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 47
Thanked 151 Times in 143 Posts
That may not be all that much if you are using that material all the time..But then a lot of those kinds of chemicals are only sold in industrial quanities to professional users..

Sam
__________________
I have tried most all of it and now do what is known to work..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2006, 08:16 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,912
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
That is industrial chemicals and I am surprised that you did not run into problems other than cost in buying the stuff. The cost reflects the fact that this is not something sold on a large scale (comparatively) and overhead such as HAZMAT handling etc. There is nothing high tech about dip tank fluid and you should be able to mix your own, shops did it for years. if you are serious about doing this I will check with a Friend of mine and see if I can get a list of what you need and maybe some sources but the main ingredient is Sodium Hydroxide which may not be so simple to buy but then maybe it will be easy to get, we will find out
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2006, 08:59 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,912
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Ok that was easy enough, All really need is the Sodium Hydroxide (caustic soda) but to make a better solution he said you could add the Sodium Carbonate (soda ash) in the amounts shown for the chemical solution you mentioned. I did a quick search and found that the Sodium Hydroxide is not at all hard to acquire nor is it expensive. I think you will find every thing you need here.

www.chemistrystore.com/Sodium_Hydroxide.htm

Also see

http://www.chem.tamu.edu/class/major...mhydroxide.htm

It would be a REALLY good idea to use a stainless steel tank and you do need a heater but for agitation he said that a lot of people simply use a tube with small holes coupled to an air line so that it bubbles from the bottom of the tank. I can not stress strongly enough to BE CAREFUL WITH THIS STUFF!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to oldred For This Useful Post:
BadHabitSS (05-30-2013)
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2006, 09:43 PM
Bryan59EC's Avatar
Car? Truck? Who Cares
 

Last journal entry: First week of December
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Age: 54
Posts: 2,367
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts
People at my job have to deal with hazardous waste on a regular basis--I would want NO part of that

Proper chemical disposal is cost prohibitive to anyone without a 6 figure income.

Toss the block & head into the pick-up and take em to an engine builder for cleaning.

My opinion

Bryan
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2006, 10:08 PM
swvalcon's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: rust on lt body shell
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mn
Age: 64
Posts: 1,016
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
zep makes a chemical called caustic soda. works great but you must heat it. It's made for jet wash tanks you see in most engine shops.Mixs with water so much to so many gallons.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2006, 07:48 AM
garyroushkolb's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: How to find an electrical drain Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wichita,Kansas
Age: 68
Posts: 133
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Magnetic particle removal

I have a motor that had a pan magnet disintegrated and put particles throughout the motor especially in the main bearings. Have pressure washed the block, heads, and crank. Bearing get killed at about 1000 miles and I'm getting ready to replace cam bearings with a wash and flush this time also.
I'm asking for any ideas on how to remove any remaining magnet material and or prevent it from entering the oil pump. The motor has extensive machine work done to it or I'd toss the whole mess.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2006, 08:26 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: tennessee
Posts: 5,912
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Bryan, Makes an excellent point that should not be overlooked, you are going to have the dickens of a time getting rid of that stuff when the time comes, $$$. If you just dump it some place you could very well face a hefty fine or jail time if it is found and traced backed to you, this is serious business!



Swvalcon, Caustic soda and Sodium Hydroxide are just two different names for the same thing and it is the same chemical we have been discussing, you are right it will work great all by it's self if mixed in the correct amount of water and heated but the heated mixture should also be agitated during use.


Gary, What kind of block? After a through hot tank cleaning you might try cleaning the oil passages with a small wire brush (gun cleaning kit? Maybe tools made just for this?). You probably should remove the plugs at the end of the cam galley and push the brush/swab all the way through if possible. Even the tiny passages are drilled and thus straight so I think you will probably be able to clean all the passages with a bit of effort and due to the fact that this material, by it's nature, will tend not to wash off I think you are doing the right thing.

Last edited by oldred; 07-09-2006 at 08:32 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2006, 01:51 PM
ckucia's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: cleveland
Age: 47
Posts: 555
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
With regards to getting rid of the stuff when you're done...

IIRC, Sodium Hydroxide is a strong base.

If you mix a base with an acid, you end up with water and a salt.

Might want to check with a chemist, but you may be able to neutralize the sodium hydroxide with the right acid to render it harmless.

My chemistry is a little rusty, but I think hydrochloric acide (muriatic acid) might work. You would end up with salt water (full of whatever you cleaned out of the block). Probably dont want to pour a huge amount of salty water down the drain at once, but you could get rid of it without the danger of sodium hydroxide and its not going to burn or explode.

Would likely have to be done in small batches with extreme care. A possible problem might be the acid's reaction with whatever came off the block.

Check with someone who knows for certain.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Garage - Tools posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
just passed the 1000 dead mark bullheimer Off-Topic 54 05-03-2009 09:31 PM
chemical dip in los angeles area. 6T3 1/2 GALAXIE Body - Exterior 0 02-17-2006 12:25 AM
Soda Blasting VS. Chemical Dipping iwanta32fordtruck Body - Exterior 4 12-21-2004 02:09 AM
chemical dip streetrodder31 Body - Exterior 11 12-01-2004 03:47 PM
Chemical dip arborlis Body - Exterior 0 01-23-2004 08:45 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.