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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by painted jester
Shes so fine my old 409

last picture is my old car club! Taylor Area Street R ods
That is some serious iron for that era!

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willowbilly3
Well, nowdays they are a way cool engine for a rod but really an engine only a diehard chevy fan can love. Most of us that remember them, remember anyone who rode a 409 hard spending a lot of time with a blown up engine. A good indicator of their potential is how many you saw in the stock cars, few were ever there at the end of a 500 mile race.
Very true. At one time, you couldn't give these motors away, scrap prices were the going value. My old boss had 4 or 5 in a scrap pile with a mess of flatheads, we used to stuff one in the trunk of the car getting hauled to the scrap yard. They sure look cool though.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 10:01 AM
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409

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleVision
Love those candy cane valve covers on that 409 Jester.
Thanks,

I love Z 11s


I pit crewed a factory sponsored Z 11, GM took it back before the season even ended! But I did hear that a few racers kept theirs.(like to know who got away with that ) I would also like to know how many were ever built I read & hear all different statements I have a book that says 50! But I talked to an engineer at GM and he said some were warehoused and never released! He also told me the the 409 cylinder configuration with the wedge in the piston & deck and not the head was its demise But all the good attributes of the 409 went into the mystery eng later the 396

The 409 In my '38 came out of a '58 vett , "A" modified, owned by Ray Rogenbush (hope your still kicking ray )



jester
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 11:11 AM
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[QUOTE=painted jester]Thanks,

I love Z 11s


I pit crewed a factory sponsored Z 11, GM took it back before the season even ended! But I did hear that a few racers kept theirs.(like to know who got away with that ) I would also like to know how many were ever built I read & hear all different statements I have a book that says 50! But I talked to an engineer at GM and he said some were warehoused and never released! He also told me the the 409 cylinder configuration with the wedge in the piston & deck and not the head was its demise But all the good attributes of the 409 went into the mystery eng later the 396

The 409 In my '38 came out of a '58 vett , "A" modified, owned by Ray Rogenbush (hope your still kicking ray )


Well, for sure Smokey kept his and lots of spare parts.
I have seen just a few surface in magazines over the years, maybe 2 or 3.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 12:23 PM
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I recall Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins raced a 409 Impala setting record times on the 1/4 mile.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 01:28 PM
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small tires in the 60s

So many buyers wouln't shell out the money for the higher horse power 409s that the streets in the Detroit area where full of 409 cars that would blow their engines by over revving or missing gears trying to win a race (even against other 409's!) And there were so many variations of these 409 engines produced in just a few years 1961 to 1965! 340hp,360 hp,380 hp,400 hp,409 hp,425 hp, laymen just considered them all 409s and they got a bad rap As slugs or boat anchors or week and easy to blow up, made me mad at the time !

But any one that shelled out the money that put their foot down on a 425 horse, 4 speed, 4.11 geared, 409 knew what real power was and theid rev like A built small block! Remember back then factory track tests on the 1/4 mile were done on factory 5 1/2 inch wide hard case bios belted tires(I hate when people compare acceleration tests from then to new cars now !

Can you imagine putting tires from todays performance cars on those performance cars from the past and then running the same tests Oh, dont forget traction advancements that the new performance vehicles have now!!! Those old 409s, Didnt have any! thunderbolts, cyclones, amc rebels, 421 pochos,425 olds with 4speed hydro (Remember a gear called "S" for super!!!) they didnt have any either !!!

You older guys know what Im talken about humbup:

Jester

Last edited by painted jester; 12-12-2011 at 01:44 PM.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 01:39 PM
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I figured there would be members here with some memories of that engine, so I'm glad I'm glad I asked. Its interesting to see that this engine has gone from being a race engine to one that no one wanted. And now it serves as a sweet piece of nostalgia.




Quote:
Originally Posted by malc
Thanks for the article link. Apparently the displacement can be bumped up quite a bit.




Quote:
Originally Posted by matts37chev
been busy working all summer , so I can take some time (2-3 months) off in the winter

you will notice i'm here more now, for a while, in between getting caught up on the house, cars, etc

hotrodders + matts37chev = summer/no , winter/yes
I'm no math-a-matishun, but that answer looks wrong lol! Welcome back. Must be nice having all that time off.




Quote:
Originally Posted by painted jester
Shes so fine my old 409
...
last picture is my old car club! Taylor Area Street R ods
Thanks for the pics! I love old-school shots like that. And those Offy valve covers do look nice! You;ve obviously got a lot of history with this engine, both racing and working on them, and I am enjoying reading and learning from everything you abd others have posted. Is that car club still around?




Quote:
Originally Posted by painted jester
Those old 409s, thunderbolts, cyclones, amc rebels, 421 pochos,425 olds with 4speed hydro (Remember a gear called "S" for super!!!)

You older guys know what Im talken about

Jester
I wana know more about this "S" for Super!




Quote:
Originally Posted by 1930u
Here's mine 409-340HP. The coolest 409 of all is the Z-11. They were 427 cubes and had a a two piece intake manifold, larger head ports and cast iron headers.
Sweet Impala! Still have it?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 01:49 PM
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I edited my post (smalls tires) While you posted read it again
car clubs gone & many members gone now

Jester
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by painted jester
car clubs gone & many members gone now

Jester
Gone, but at least we've still got you here to tell us all about them. Nice way for them to live on, even if its posts and pictures in a thread. I'm sure you've got lots of fond memories of that bygone era
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by painted jester
He also told me the the 409 cylinder configuration with the wedge in the piston & deck and not the head was its demise But all the good attributes of the 409 went into the mystery eng later the 396 jester
This fits with my comments on combustion camber design not keeping up with the newer thinking.

I can also tell you that at the time, the high compression engine was known for having a piston that was heavy on one side, and would rock in the bore. To compound that, the high performance rods were not even equal to the standard rods in a 396... so the engineers had recognized that as a problem also.

Despite all of this, I can tell you from personal experience that they were nasty-bad for that early sixties era. :-) Even the Beach Boys knew it!!!
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 03:34 PM
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Lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by lt1silverhawk
Gone, but at least we've still got you here to tell us all about them. Nice way for them to live on, even if its posts and pictures in a thread. I'm sure you've got lots of fond memories of that bygone era
LOL Hey I didnt say dead (wow ) gone meant here there every where, Ive lost contact with them all & a few passed away. The smilly meant Im sad about the club being gone and all of us moving into other areas of the country! Fond memories!!! by gone era!!! Im having a heart attack here!!!!!

LOL, Just funnin with you Thanks for the thoughts

4 speed hydro automatics came in a lot of GM cars, in the 60s they had a, super a low a d1 & d . We racers (a lot of racers) put these transes in everything ( I ran one behind my 409 with a 4000 stall converter) in "B" GAS ,& 5.13 gears. The gear ratios in that trans were great I cant remember them off hand? SOME ONE ON HERE WILL! But cruising on the highway they wouldnt shift into 4th till between 75 & 85 mph! The draw back was a week bell housing!! They would crack all the way around!! After scattering 2 at Detroit dragway And 1 on woodward avenue!! I went back to the 4 speed Manual trans. But on the street these hydromatics (and in stock classes)they were a force to be reckoned with!! When every one else was at the top of 3rd gear you still had another gear to go GM streamlined & made them 3 speeds probably for ease of installation on the line or room concerns!

I tried to get more info on these transes but cant come up with much, These computers but then Im old LOL and gona be gone soon LOL It was fun writting this post(Im laughing now & I hope you are too)

Ive been off here since spring been too busy Short days & cold brought me back!! Last time I said I was old on here a bunch of people climbed down my throat So I hope every one takes this in fun


Jester
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 03:51 PM
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I want to say "3.40 something" to 1 low gear?????
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 04:11 PM
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Christmass drawing

Quote:
Originally Posted by TucsonJay
I want to say "3.40 something" to 1 low gear?????



hope you had a good summer Dont know about the gear ratio . Did you really keep that drawing since high school,I dont have anything from high school but I used to draw cars like that!!!
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 04:39 PM
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A friend just called me & said he thinks low gear was 3.82 to1 , Any one know for sure?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2011, 04:55 PM
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I don't remember the actual low gear ratio number. I do remember these trans didn't have a torque convertor. It was a simple fluid coupler. So the extra low gear was needed.. Had one in my 57 Pontiac ..also in a 57 Olds..
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