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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2014, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
Low cost except for the 3-5k spent on heads.
No need for that. All stock oem castings. No welding or epoxy. Hand porting only 1.94 limit.
1.6 stock rocker limit. .512@ the valve limit.

I do these heads to the Max myself for $ 460.
Racers can too. Its not rocket science.

Because everybody is limited to working with what's there a home porter is just as competitive as a $ pro$.
With these heads.

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2014, 08:11 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
No need for that. All stock oem castings. No welding or epoxy.

I do these heads to the Max myself for $ 460.
Racers can too. Its not rocket science.
No offense but you're not a boutique head shop. If people want to win badly enough they will spare no expense.

It doesn't follow the spirit of the rule but it does follow the spirit of "bending the rules".
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2014, 08:18 PM
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The payouts limit how much racers will spend.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2014, 08:20 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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The payouts limit how much racers will spend.
Lol not when pride is involved.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2014, 12:18 AM
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I ran dirt track "back in the day" and built a few 302's,if you get too carried away with duration with the smaller cubes you will lose the torque needed to get off the corners I suggest this for a Cam:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hr...1-06/overview/ use the camel humps with 2.02 X 1.6 valves and do a really good port job on them.The more weight you can shave off the better and try to set the car up suspension wise to run as low on the track as possible thus taking the shortest way around.I love a "Giant Killer" Go get 'em!
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2014, 10:05 AM
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Any special reason you recommend a 4/7 swap camshaft?
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:30 AM
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Compression is your best friend on a two barrel engine. Angle mill your heads.
Get your exhaust manifolds from Brzezinski, or from some of the aftermarket sources that are making large volume rams horn manifolds.
Somebody like VDL or C&S can oval the venturi on a 500 and get well into the 600's.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2014, 10:34 AM
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dont want to create a new thread for this..

what is a 4/7 swap camshaft? what is the benefit of this? dont think ive ever heard of it.
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Old 05-01-2014, 10:43 AM
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If your rules don't have a cubic inch rule, then run the biggest cubic inch motor you can afford. I too am a lover of the 302 small block, but with no cubic inch rule it will tough to compete. In the the past our local circle track had similar rules and the best combo we ran was a 406 (.030 over bore 400) with 5.7 rods. I built the motor with some claimer Ohio "dense cast" claimer flat top pistons, stock crank, stock reconditioned 5.7 350 rods with arp bolts, zero decked block, and had the rotating assembly balanced. It had 186 fuelie heads, 194/150 valves, fresh valve job, and no porting. I used an Isky hydraulic cam. The first season we ran it we had fast time 11 times out of 12 nights and won 3 features that season. We had around $1800 in the engine and turned it 6000 rpm. We used the torque of the 406 to get the car off the corner. No 350 or less could touch us. Some of the other guys had 383s and they could almost keep up with us. So with your rules I think the 302 is at a disadvantage. So my 2 cents is keep it simple and build a big cubic inch motor and kick butt!
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2014, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Richiehd View Post
Any special reason you recommend a 4/7 swap camshaft?
I too am curious to here the reason for this. Not out of sarcastic disagreement, just genuine intrigue.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2014, 01:07 PM
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Lol not when pride is involved.
X2, if you can afford it any expense to win regradless of class is justified except maybe to your wife.

Bogie
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2014, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by clwhoops44 View Post
dont want to create a new thread for this..

what is a 4/7 swap camshaft? what is the benefit of this? dont think ive ever heard of it.
The Chevy firing order (which is also the same as earlier SBFords but they number the cylinders differently) have a problem with cylinders 5 and 7 being next to each other but only 90 degrees apart in the firing order of 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. Pretty much any and every engine lives with a situation where the cylinders do not contribute equal power in this case 7 is quite down on power for a lot of reasons one of which is fighting for exhaust space and wave response if using headers with number 5. The 4 to 7 swap retimes the firing order to 1-8-7-3-6-5-4-2. Many builders claim power improvements with this, so far all I've seen is the 5-7 problem just moved to become a 4-2 problem. With a 4 throw 90 degree crank you're pretty much stuck with this probem of two adjacent cylinders running just 90 degrees apart. In many ways it makes the engine operate like it has 7 cylinders of 6 in common size and a 7th that's twice as big.

Bogie
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2014, 01:47 PM
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ah, i see. thanks bogie.

so the potential power increase is minimal at best? i was searching the net while waiting on a response and saw a guy that said his builder claimed 40 more hp on a vortec headed small block with a 4/7 swap.

i dont guess i see why people would pay the premium to have a cam company custom grind a 4/7
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2014, 02:54 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Originally Posted by clwhoops44 View Post
ah, i see. thanks bogie.

so the potential power increase is minimal at best? i was searching the net while waiting on a response and saw a guy that said his builder claimed 40 more hp on a vortec headed small block with a 4/7 swap.

i dont guess i see why people would pay the premium to have a cam company custom grind a 4/7
it'll pick up 1-2% depending on the manifold/exhaust.

The headers should be modified to follow the altered firing order as well- many people do not do that.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2014, 11:25 PM
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I ran dirt track "back in the day" and built a few 302's,if you get too carried away with duration with the smaller cubes you will lose the torque needed to get off the corners I suggest this for a Cam:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hr...1-06/overview/ use the camel humps with 2.02 X 1.6 valves and do a really good port job on them.The more weight you can shave off the better and try to set the car up suspension wise to run as low on the track as possible thus taking the shortest way around.I love a "Giant Killer" Go get 'em!
Hey all didn't mean to bail on anyone since I started this thread just got caught up with work. I had a long in depth conversation with a guy I worked with that raced 302's back in the day (had no idea he raced) anyways after talking to everyone on here and the guy I work with and looking at parts I think I'm going to go with something else, I don't have the experience to make one survive such high RPMs and I don't want to run the risk of spending several thousands of dollars and have it blow up. Another aspect of why I'm going with something else is to even be somewhat competitive the motor would be illegal as hell lol and I don't want to ruin my reputation out there. I still want to build one sometime down the road just to say I did it and maybe put it in a hot rod or something but for now I'll yank my 350 out of my race car and go from there. I might put a better set of rods, pistons and crank inside it and a slightly bigger cam and see what that does. Right now the motor is pretty much bone stock with the exception of a high volume oil pump, the cam I listed in my original post and a set of copper head gaskets and a set of springs to match the cam. I've ran all season on the motor running it 6500 rpms without any issues.
I want to thank everyone who has posted on here and has given me advice I really and truly appreciate it, I'm keeping notes for future reference if I decide to build a 302.
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