[canter]

Greetings from germany.

After surfing a bit through the net, i found this great place with alot helpful info. So i registered and decided to try my luck. Please excuse my bad english

I really dont know what kind of cam and all the other stuff i should go with. The idle shouldnt be too rough and i prefer a torquer rather then a high hp engine.

For the heads i am currently looking at two different options:
>>> GM Performance Vortec (from sdpc2000 as a set)
or
>>> Edelbrock 60989 E-Tec 200
which would be the better choise?

Also i really dont know what cam and other parts (timing chain and gears) i should use. I looked at some different cams, but there are so many options so i dont really know where to start. i want to stay between 1500-2000$ for the parts. Also i want to keep a compression around 9.5:1 to 9.8:1

I looked at the package from Edelbrock with the 2102 or 2103 camshaft kit. Do you think this is a good way to go? What numbers will i see with this?


Block from a 69 Corvette, 3970010.
600cfm Edelbrock 1406 carb
TH350 stock
Eagle ESP Cast/Steel 3.750" Stroke Crankshaft
5.7" 5140 steel SIR bushed rods with ARP bolts
Keith black Hypereutechtic dished Pistons 9.7 compression with 64cc head


I'm really a n00b to all this, so thank you for your patience and your help!

Regards,
Canter

[Blazin72]

How about a cam like a Comp cams XE268 or if you want a little more top end power step up to a XE274. Top that off with a Performer RPM and a set of aluminum heads like those E-tecs or any of the other quality aftermarket heads out there and you'll have yourself a nice engine.

[BigDawgsEatFirst]

go with the aluminum e-tecs and
bump up the compression to 10.0

[ap72]

Go for some ported Vortecs- the same price as E-tecs, better flow, and iron works better than Aluminum for street engines.

[Rick WI]

I would highly suggest going the E-Tec route. We have flowed those heads, performed a lot of porting work on them and installed them on engines, they work very, very well. All our combos though have been on big 400 CI based motors in the 421 and larger range. So, that's a killer head for a decent price.

Camshaft selection I'd NOT opt for the Performer RPM. Spend the money on the hydraulic roller option. It will be a much nicer camshaft for both around town driving and build a lot more power through the RPM range. I think you'll be very pleased.

If possible I'd opt to get the heads respeced and have Edelbrock install springs to match the cam WITH the ability to get lift in the .600 range with a 1.6 rocker. The Edelbrock heads flow well right up to .600 lift and beyond. You'll have a harder hitting motor this way.

The valves that Edelbrock provides with the heads, stock, work very well, so that's what I'd have them install. We have tried various Ferrea, Manley and REV valves with no significant improvement for what your trying to do.

Setup the engine for 10:1 compression unless you have access to pretty high octane. If you do than 11:1 would be even better.

The Performer RPM dual plane intake is what I'd also opt for, no business going with a single plane at this level of power and RPM band.

[Blazin72]

Originally Posted by ap72

iron works better than Aluminum for street engines.

Aluminum heads work quite well on the street. Generally speaking you can also get away with slightly higher compression ratios on aluminum too.

[canter]

@all:
Thank you for the answers

I think i will go with the E-Tec now.

@Rick WI:
Will the heads perform good in stock condition also? Or only with porting work?

@Blazin72
Thank you for the 2 cam numbers. I think they match my application pretty good. After Rick WI post im now thinking about a hydr. roller. What do you think?


Do you guys think it would be worth paying the extra for a hydr. roller in my case?

[Cstraub]

I would put a set of complete Canfields on the engine. They are a 68 cc and come with a 2.08" valve. Flow numbers out of the box are very good. I would go with a hyd roller in the neighbor hood of 226 on the intake @ .050 and 234 @ .050" on the exhaust with lift on the intake around 570 and lift on the exhaust around 530. Lobe sep of 110.

These heads easily support 500HP out of the box and in my oppinion offer one of the best bangs for the buck. Hyd roller in the long run will be worth the money. With the availability of good flat tappet lifters questionable, it is not worth the risk of having a cam go down especially in your situation being out of the country.

Chris

[Rick WI]

The Edelbrocks flow exactly as pposted on the Eelbrock website. They will work very well stock.

I have seen some Canfields on the flowbench and they didn't flow as advertised, although they can be made to flow really well. These heads were as delivered from Competition Products.

The roller is worth the money and I think the Edelbrock grind is right in the area your looking for. Enough duration for good upper RPM power, and a tight duration split to match the good intake to exhaust flow ratio.

[454C10]

After reading your post, I would build a much more conservative setup as the others have recommended above.

1) Use vortec heads modified for higher lift and with some bowl work (standard upgrade). However, vortec heads require special covers, rockers, and intake as compared to a normal sbc head. If you have these things already than get a set of 180cc dart iron eagles or some trick flows to stay with in your budget.
2) Roller cams are expensive and can be hard to set up for a "new engine guy" (Bronze distributor gear, shorter pushrods, roller lifters, cam buttons, thrust bearings, heavy springs, cam back lash setup, special timing chain cover, fuel pump rod, so on and so on). So use a simple hyd flat tappet cam with 210 degrees at 0.050" intake duration and 218 degrees exhaust, and 0.450" lift on 110 lobe centers. Good idle, good economy, good torque, cheap, and easy to install.
3) Use a regular performer rpm intake (not air gap rpm). You will need heat risers in the intake in cooler climates.
4) Trash the edelbrock carb (junk) and get a Holley 3310 (750 cfm, vac sec)
5) Use 8.5 to 9:1 cr.
6) Use full length headers.

Check out chevyhiperformance.com. They build torquer 383's all the time and have some old tech articles that you can review on their web site. They use the vortec heads a lot and they make great torque and good hp numbers with moderate cr and smallish flat tappet cams.

If you don't want a rough idle and want low rpm torque then use a mild cam and lower cr to handle the higher cylinder pressures from the mild cam.

You didn't describe your application for your engine (car weight, trans, diff gear, and intended use). But this set up would be ideal in a 3500lb+ car with a 3.08 gear and automatic transmission. Or if you just wanted a torque monster engine for cheap that gets good mileage with a street-able idle.

[canter]

So do you think i should go with:

Edelbrock #60989 E-Tec 200

with a

Comp Cam SK12-422-8 SK-Kit?


What number can i expect from this combination?

[canter]

Originally Posted by 454C10

You didn't describe your application for your engine (car weight, trans, diff gear, and intended use). But this set up would be ideal in a 3500lb+ car with a 3.08 gear and automatic transmission. Or if you just wanted a torque monster engine for cheap that gets good mileage with a street-able idle.

@454C10

Thank you for your advice.

The 383 will be in a 77 Chevy Nova. It has 2.53 gears but will be changed to a bit higher ratio.


I am currently restoring this car and i will be driving it only in summer time when its warm and the sun is shining
Then I will drive it daily. But in general i hav a real daily driver.
I dont want to go racing with the car, but i want a nice street performer, which has a not too rough idle. "Noticable idle" would be ok tho.
Also i want to keep the stock converter.


Today 1 gallon 95 octane gas was 6.70$. So i want to make it a economic engine which can run on (in germany) normal 92 octane gas.


But nevertheless, i want to make some nice torque. Im not looking at too much high end hp but i want a good balance. maybe 420/420 or 400/450 if its possible with this CR and budget.


It is also pretty expensive to get the stuff from the states to germany. So i think i will not do a project like this too often. Altho i have a limited budget, i dont want to safe the money on the wrong places. So if a hydr roller is really worth the 3 times higher price, i would take it into consideration.

[Rick WI]

That comp cam is way too small. You will not hit your numbers with that. The Edelbrock package will get you in your range. The converter may have to be restalled, which can be done on a stock converter, to the 2200 range or so but that's it. It will idle fine and run on 92.

The roller is well worth it for torque production.

We have done a 383 with that exact grind on a 383 with AFR heads. It is a VERY mild combination. We are currently working with the same customer to take that motor out of his Camaro, put it in his dads 64 Corvette and will be building him a 427 small block. His Dad is in his 60's. So if you want a motor that is tame enough for a guy in his 60's go for that grind, it will do the trick for you. The reason he is taking the motor out is it's a nice runner but I can smoke him in my Subaru WRX and I took him for a ride in my 454 small block Camaro. Simply not a very fast package.

If you want to have something to run with and beat the BMW M3's you need more camshaft. The Edelbrock is a good choice.

With proper tuning of the carburetor I see no reason you can't get 15 MPG with a decent rear gear in the 3.50 to 3.70 range, with overdrive you should get close to 20.

We do lots of dyno testing and lots of cylinder head and cam work. I think for your expectations this will get you real close to what your looking for.

If the roller is just out of the budget I would opt for a solid lifter camshaft with very similar specs to the Edelbrock roller. I would simply not even consider the Edelbrock RPM solids though, they are just too old of a grind.

[canter]

Hey Rick. Thx for all your great info!


Although we have the Autobahn here, where you can drive as fast as you like, im driving 90% in town.


What do you think of these heads?
on eBay Better/worse then Edelbrock E-Tec?

Which Edelbrock hydraulic Roller Cam are you refering to? So i know what cam specs i have to look for.

I like the Comp Cams SK-Kit as there is all in one package and the price is good when i find it in online stores.

[Rick WI]

The only RPM Hyd roller grind they have, its speced under Package # 2201.

Look at those specs and you can research the Comp line to find one very close I am sure. Note the duration split between the intake and exhaust. This is important to note with a head that has a good/excellent exhaust flow ratio. Too much split will over scavange the intake charge and will loose power on the top.

The Pro 1 230cc head is too big, way too big. The Edelbrock E-Tec head also has a much more modern combustion chamber. Will be more tolerant towards detonation on pump gas.