Chevy flexplate/starter relationship - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-20-2004, 05:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Age: 43
Posts: 7
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Chevy flexplate/starter relationship

I just sat here trying to decide if I should post this here or in the tranny section. I decided to go here, since my problem doesn't really have anything to do with the tranny, but EVERYTHING to do with starting the car.

I'll start with the background info... the car is my 69 Nova. The engine is a 350 removed from a 94 GMC pickup, converted to a carb with an intake from an 87 Monte Carlo. And the tranny is a TH350, newly rebuilt with a mild shift kit. The flexplate and starter I used were from the 94 truck, but I always had problems with starting, even when the motor was in the truck. Once started (assuming you can get it started), the car runs great.

OK, I removed the starter, and found a big chunk broke out of the side of it, where the solenoid mounts up. That would explain why sometimes it would
start and other times it would not. So I asked around if one of these older starters I have would work, since they also have the same staggered bolt pattern. I got mixed answers from everyone I talked to, so I decided what the heck, lets bolt it on and see. What I got from this effort is a LOT of grinding, though it would turn the motor over (it sounded somewhat labored tho). I tried shimming and it didn't help. Like I said, the starter I tried has the same staggered bolt pattern, but it is an older style starter and is physically bigger.

The local parts store and a couple boneyards told me that it would not work, so I guess I should have listened to them. Thing is, I have quite a few of these older starters, so I decided to see if there was a "conversion" flexplate that would let me use the older starters on the newer motor. I called Summit, who asked for the tooth count of the flexplate (which I do not know). But then I called Jegs, and the guy there told me that the staggered bolt pattern was for one tooth count and the straight pattern was for the other, therefore my starter swap should work.

So I borrowed the starter off of my buddy's 93 truck, and what do you know- it starts the engine as it should. I tried two more of my "older" starters and I get the grinding. So all I can guess is that the Jegs guy didn't know what he was talking about.

Now here's the problem- I've always had a couple bad spots on this flexplate-- it needs changed. Now, with this 94 engine, am I stuck with the same type of flexplate and expensive starter, or can I go with some other flexplate that lets me use the older ones? And if so, how do I determine what flexplate to get and what the tooth count should be? It seems like I remember hearing that the crank bolt pattern was different on this engine, but I don't know.

For added info, all starters I have used have been staggered bolt pattern (obviously) and all had 9 teeth on the gear.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-20-2004, 05:57 PM
johnsongrass1's Avatar
Race it, Don't rice it!
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Columbia, Mo
Age: 37
Posts: 4,078
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Starters with the big body and staggered bolt pattern use the 168 tooth flywheel/flex plate and those with the smaller body straight pattern use the 153 tooth flywheel/flexplate. They can be found in internal balance and in external balance configurations. External stuff had a smaller bolt flange on the crank and the internal with a bigger pattern. Most stuff from 86 up had the external smaller bolt pattern and 153. Yours, being a truck with a Th350 probably has the 168 external big body pattern and needs the big body staggered pattern. I know of no other adapter plates to convert from one to another.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-20-2004, 06:38 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Age: 43
Posts: 7
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well, the donor truck originally had a 4L60e transmission. The TH350 didn't come into the picture until the engine found its way into the Nova. The starter that is original to this engine is larger than the one I changed on a mid-90's V8 Camaro recently, so I guess by 90's standards it is the "large starter." But the starters I've been trying are 70's and 80's style, so they are a tad bit bigger than the truck's original starter.

I'm looking at B&M's offerings in a Summit catalog right now, and here's what I see for SBC flexplates...
1. 55-85 153-tooth
2. 86-94 153-tooth, counterbalanced for 1-pc main seal
3. 55-85 168-tooth
4. 86-94 168-tooth, externally balanced

Then, under TCI's flexplates, I see...
1. All Chevy V8, 153-tooth, int balance
2. All Chevy V8, 168-tooth, ext balance
3. 86-94 sbc, 168-tooth, dual bolt pattern, counterbalanced for 1 pc main seal.

I'm getting ready to crawl under and do a tooth count, but I suspect to find 168 teeth. But what is the difference between counterbalanced and external balance, and how do I tell from looking at the flexplate?

I guess my main burning question is, should any 168-style starter work with any 168-count flexplate?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-20-2004, 07:18 PM
edge's Avatar
Time is short, are you ready?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: South Carolina
Age: 45
Posts: 658
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: Chevy flexplate/starter relationship

Quote:
Originally posted by Joey-T
The engine is a 350 removed from a 94 GMC pickup ...

The flexplate and starter I used were from the 94 truck, ...

So I borrowed the starter off of my buddy's 93 truck, and what do you know- it starts the engine as it should.

Now here's the problem- I've always had a couple bad spots on this flexplate-- it needs changed. Now, with this 94 engine, am I stuck with the same type of flexplate and expensive starter, or can I go with some other flexplate that lets me use the older ones?
My advice, get a new flexplate from NAPA for the 94 GMC pickup with the 5.7 liter. Also, get the cheapest remanufactured starter by NAPA. I bought a "NAPA" remanfactured starter and it works on my 94' Surburban just fine. The starter was less than $40.00.

Don't waste your money on a high-torque starter from Summit or Jegs when a stock replacement will do the job. If the starter off your buddy's 93' truck worked, that should answer your question right there. Good luck, Ed www.edgesz28.com

__________________________________________________
Who is Jesus?.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-20-2004, 07:37 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Age: 43
Posts: 7
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I wasn't going to buy a hi-torque starter, but the prices AutoZone were giving me for a stock replacement were pretty high. I'll check with Napa like you said though.

I guess what I was really after was a way to use the older style starters, since I have a quite a few of those on hand. I know I really need to replace my flexplate, so I was hoping for some sort of swap, I guess.It would seem to me that all the 168-tooth stuff should work interchangeably, but I didn't know.

I guess the easiest way would be a stock replacement flexplate and a Napa starter, I was just trying to get away with less $$ outlay.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-20-2004, 09:14 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Age: 43
Posts: 7
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just for further information, the starter I took off is pn 10455013. I haven't seen any $40 starters to replace this one on Napa or any other parts site. Is there a site where I can check what other starters might interchange with this one?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2004, 06:33 AM
edge's Avatar
Time is short, are you ready?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: South Carolina
Age: 45
Posts: 658
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Here are some examples

I know I got mine at Napa for less than $40. Actually, I think is was closer to $30 when I bought it last year. Here are some examples:

Advance Auto Parts - OE Quality: $30

Advanced Auto Parts - Autolite Remanuf: $50

Napa Remanuf. (Standard): $37

Napa Remanuf. (Premium): $78

Autozone - Duralast Remanuf.: $30 - Click on the first one

Here is the flex plate from Napa. Notice, it is a 168 tooth and only costs $68.

I wouldn't hesitate to get the Advance Auto Parts standard starter. I friend of mine has used one successfully on his 555 BBC race engine. If it can turn that, surely a stock SBC will be fine.

I used my 94' 5.7 Suburban when looking up these parts. I am sure a 93' GMC pickup will be the same.

Depending on which starter you go with, you could replace both your flex plate and starter for less than $100. Good luck, Ed www.edgesz28.com

Last edited by edge; 09-21-2004 at 06:42 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2004, 12:21 PM
Siggy_Freud's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Age: 29
Posts: 2,371
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I tend to stay away from the economy rated starters (such as Autozone's Valucraft line). Like most automotive parts you get what you pay for and the starter is one of the last things I want going when I am away from home. I've used a Duralast Gold for the last 3 years and never once had a problem with it.
__________________
Bringing history and technology together.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2004, 02:05 PM
68NovaSS's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Working with chromed bolts
Last journal entry: New to me T-Bucket
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Nine Mile Falls, Washington
Posts: 5,217
Wiki Edits: 9

Thanks: 100
Thanked 130 Times in 121 Posts
Rather than counting teeth, which can be frustrating, try to snake a tape measure from the bottom, the 153 tooth flexplate will be 12.85" diameter and the 168 tooth will be 14.13".

Rather than counting teeth, which can be frustrating, try to snake a tape measure from the bottom, the 153 tooth flexplate will be 12.85" diameter and the 168 tooth will be 14.13".

Last edited by 68NovaSS; 09-21-2004 at 02:05 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09-21-2004, 09:04 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ontario
Posts: 120
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yes all 168 tooth staggered bolt starters are the same. the reason your friends starter worked and yours didnt is because you just happened to get it on right the first time. Use your own starters if you want but when you put it on see if you can slide a 1/8 inch allen wrench between the flexplate teeth and the starter shaft. If you have a 1/8 size going thru fine but a 5/32 size doesn't quite fit yet , then you will have it right. Turn the key with confidence and smile!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2012, 11:28 PM
Registered User
 

Last journal entry: Back on Fenders
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Beebe, Ar.
Posts: 21
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
FLEX PLATE teeths

I'M looking a SBC Flexplate P/N.

a 153 teeth is 12.75", a 168 teether is 14" the smaller plate has less teeth than the bigger one. My duaghter would say ' DUH '. I like the check with the allen wrenches. I just bought a mini starter and they said it would fit both flexplates. A big 'no' because of the above.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.