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Chevy Starter Issues Q & A

56K views 23 replies 11 participants last post by  carsavvycook 
#1 ·
Howdy Y'all.

Well to start this one off I wish to put as much information on this subject as possible .

I will start off with something I inadvertently learned today.

Please feel free to add any & all pertinent information .
No matter how small & insignificant it might seem.

I hope for this tread to be a good place to start writing a WIKI from.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We all have heard @ one time or another that cringing make you want to scream poorly adjusted Chevy starter

Recently {last month or two} I had read a thread {can't remember where} about a feller that was having real bad problems & it went as far as people grinding the block or starter to make the thing work.
Remember that one ?{please link me up}

So today I had to pick up a starter I went to Car Quest & was confronted with which one do you need?
the 3510S
or the 3510MS?

While comparing the units which are very different from the nose cone back .

Carole
{One of my all time favorite parts ladies} looked in one more book for me then she noticed that the 3510S used STANDARD {SAE} Bolts while the
3510MS employs METRIC Bolts.

Now I don't know how many people have know this information but , to me this make me think that most of these starter issues can be stripped back to this mounting problem.

There has to be a big difference from a 3/8th knurled GM starter bolt & a 10mm one {i guess}

I will take pictures of the 2 & mark the differences when I go back.


Please fell free to post away {just try to keep on the topic as much a possible}



R :thumbup:
 
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#2 ·
A while back the starter stopped working on my daily driver, a '95 Chevy Astro.
Luckily I had an Ebay bought ministarter mounted on my half finished hot rod project sm, so while I were waiting for my new OEM starter, i took the small one and put it on the Astro.
The ministarter has shorter bolts then the OEM starter, so I had to use the bolts supplied with the ministarter instead of the OEM bolts.

The ministarter bolts were just oridinary bolts. No grade 5 or 8 marking and no knurled area above the threads.

Next day the problem started and it was not when I cranked the motor. It was during driving: During accleration and driving steep uphills the bendix screw on the starter grinded slightly against the flexplate. Not much, just a week sound.
I took off the starter and made a shim between the starter and the machined aliminium block that fastens the starter to the motor. Then I moved the starter a little forward and away from the flexplate. Problem solved - for a while...
After app 14 days. The grinding started again. Weaker than before, but certanly there. By then I had received my OEM starter, so I just put that one on.
But what happened to the ministarter during the 14 days?
The starter itself had worked excellent except this.

My theory is the bolts. They are too thin, soft and the couldn't hold the amount of power and flexed more and more.
I could probably shimmed one or two times more and then the bolts would have broken.
 
#3 · (Edited)
The pictures I mentioned.

As you can see the Digital Caliper tells the difference between the 2 different nose cones ,also the paper clip will not fit in the one.

The rule of thumb is to pay the core charge & if necessary change out the cone if you can not get the right starter for your block.





R :thumbup:
 

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#4 ·
If I understand your post right your having some grinding sounds from your starter. I just posted a problem w/ my starter grinding on start up on the engine forum. I would get it to start but eventually it would grind again. I replaced the starter mounting bolts, the old ones were worn on the knurled areas. The new ones actually gripped the started and fit more snug. I just did this today and it seemed to help so far. Try brand new bolts.
 
#5 ·
I had a cheap mini starter on my 34 that would grind after starting. The bendix was slow to pull out after starting, the noise was quite irritating. Found out this is a common problem with cheap mini starters. I eventually replaced it with a Powermaster Ultra Torque, problem solved.

Vince
 
#6 ·
RossR90 said:
If I understand your post right your having some grinding sounds from your starter. I just posted a problem w/ my starter grinding on start up on the engine forum. I would get it to start but eventually it would grind again. I replaced the starter mounting bolts, the old ones were worn on the knurled areas. The new ones actually gripped the started and fit more snug. I just did this today and it seemed to help so far. Try brand new bolts.


Errr ...um ... No.

What I tried to post in that thread & what you are missing in this one is:

There are TWO different starters.

One is Metric & the other is SAE {standard} look @ this Pix.







And then this one.



See how the paper clip will not fit with the Proper bolt?

Now times that by 2 & the starter will never stay put the rear brackets will not help if the correct bolts are not in place.





R :thumbup:
 
#7 ·
I don't have anything to add but am learning more. Great thread.
Question, if anyone can help.
What is the difference between a 153 tooth starter and a 168 tooth starter.
Reason for the ? is I have a '86 5.7(350) out of a 2500 pu and am trying to get the correct starter for it.
I have a 168 tooth flexplate.
I have an older starter that I tried using and it jams.
Do I need a starter that is 86 or newer. The men at the boneyard think I'm nuts when I talk about the difference in tooths on the flexplate.
Also I used ordiary hardware store bolts (hardened) to mount it, MUST I use the knurled bolts?
Or do I just nreed to shim the starter?
 
#8 ·
Flywheels with two different diameters are used on Chevrolet small-block V~8, big-block V~8, and V~6/90-degree engines.

Large flywheels are 14" in diameter, and have 168 teeth on the starter ring gear.

Starter noses used with large diameter flywheels have two offset bolt holes.

Small diameter flywheels are 12-3/4" in diameter, and have starter ring gears with 153 teeth.

Starters for small flywheels have two bolt holes which are paralleled to the back of the block.


The difference in flywheel diameters requires two different starter housings.


This nose is the part of the starter that moves the starter motor in closer to the flywheel on the 153 tooth and farther out away from the flywheel on the 168 tooth wheels.

Most Chevrolet blocks are drilled for both types of starters. If you are changing the diameter of your flywheel, you can convert your present starter to fit the new flywheel by installing the appropriate starter nose .

The Knurled starter bolts are a must. The knurled part holds the starter in place it is actually a bit wider to keep the starter from shifting.

Keep in mind the difference of the metric & SAE bolt Dia.

Doc here, :pimp:

Order a SET of NEW 350 Starter bolts from GM, If you look, those are knurled..after so many changes, they no longer fit..and give the starter "Wiggle" room..

Also, If not using it, get a rear brace for the starter..

A open inspection hole will contribute to the noise level.


Doc :pimp:
__________________


R :thumbup:
 
#9 ·
Rob Keller said:
The pictures I mentioned.

As you can see the Digital Caliper tells the difference between the 2 different nose cones ,also the paper clip will not fit in the one.

The rule of thumb is to pay the core charge & if necessary change out the cone if you can not get the right starter for your block.

R :thumbup:
Rob,

Outstanding observation. 3/8" vs. 10mm holes. Who'da thunk it? :thumbup:
 
#10 ·
joe_padavano said:
Rob,

Outstanding observation. 3/8" vs. 10mm holes. Who'da thunk it? :thumbup:
Actually Carol my favorite parts lady is partially responsible for the discovery.

The"different part #s gave it away. :thumbup:

{Sarcasm here}
I posses the skill to communicate with some parts people.

Mechanic's/Technicians speak one language & parts people speak another.

Very rare that the 2 get together on the same line of communication

66GMC is another favorite of mine but he lives in Canada EH?

I am hoping to compile all the info I can to write a WIKI.




R :thumbup:
 
#11 ·
Thanx for responding.
I got a starter for this 86 motor and put the 68 aside for now (think I may have cooked it anyway). I put it in and the pinion fits nicely when activated by hand, BUT, when I release it it does not fully retract!
So I added some shim just to srr if that would help and it still does not fully retract.
I applied power and it seems to jamb. I am not sure my battery is fully charged so it is on the trickler fot the night.
Mind you this is not a running motor yet. Plugs are out and it is not wired.
thanx :(
 
#12 ·
i have an 85 trans am with a 305 HO carb. i had my starter chip a tooth on my fly wheel and after a while i had to change both. i put a fly wheel on from a 74 nova 6 cl its a small one and i put a starter on from something i had. it sounded like i needed shims or the starter was weak. 1 week went by and the starter will not conect at all with out shims and it works fine in and out. so i got pissed off and now i gave up. i had to pull the y pipe or the motor or the trany to get the starter out the first time. i pulled the trany cause the ypipe bolts were rusted and im cheap. i got a crate motor going in and headers and y pipe going in. the first thing i did was take a saw to the old y pipe.
now what i just read i need the rite bolts and starter for my car? that would have saved hours of my beer time.
thanks
 
#15 ·
So, which is it ? 1/8th" or a paper clip for clearence?

I shimmed the starter down with washers , charged the battery. Cranks but has that hi whine sound and still does not fully retract when I let go of the button.As soon as I turn the flexplate by hand it kicks out . So I am assuming if it were to start that it would kick out. :confused:
 
#16 ·
Sounds to me that the Bendix {Shift fork in this picture }is shot .




That is that arm that kicks the starter drive gear into & out of the ring gear.

If your going to shim the starter you need to use starter shims washers Will not give you the right amount of space.

Starter shims are real thin as opposed to regular old washers.

I would get a replacement starter.

But do not get rid of the old one until the problem is fixed you might need it .

You also need to check the terminals & wires to make sure they are in good condition.



R :thumbup:
 

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#18 ·
Cape Cod Bob said:
So, which is it ? 1/8th" or a paper clip for clearence?
:confused:
it is 1/8" at the flywheel. (starter pinion to flywheel)
the paperclip was showing the difference in the size of the mounting bolt holes.
You want the bolts to fit snugly in the mounting holes with no slop.
I am not even sure if you want to be able to turn them by hand.

If you can get a paperclip between the bolt and the hole---it is too sloppy, and I can see how this would cause alignment issues over time.

Are starter bolts available with a 10mm knurled shank and 3/8" threads???
 
#19 ·
Bryan59EC said:
it is 1/8" at the flywheel. (starter pinion to flywheel)
the paperclip was showing the difference in the size of the mounting bolt holes.
You want the bolts to fit snugly in the mounting holes with no slop.
I am not even sure if you want to be able to turn them by hand.

If you can get a paperclip between the bolt and the hole---it is too sloppy, and I can see how this would cause alignment issues over time.

Are starter bolts available with a 10mm knurled shank and 3/8" threads???
NO. Some are a Metric thread. I keep options in stock. Because I get all kinds of Chevy's in for work. Most are available aftermarket. The shorter ones, I have to get from the dealer mostly.
 
#21 ·
I am adding this to my list of stuff.

Its a nice step by step with pictures & everything.

http://www.bluewatermarinesvc.com/html/gm_starter.html

If you have any more input it would be greatly appreciated.

Is there a difference between a SBC & a BBC starter?





R :thumbup:
 
#22 ·
Rob Keller said:
Is there a difference between a SBC & a BBC starter?
R :thumbup:
Big Blocks should all be 168 tooth starters (I may be wrong---it has happened)

Small blocks can use either starter dictated by flywheel and IF the block is drilled and tapped for both straight across and diagnal patterns.

I believe my 307 in the 66 has only the 153 pattern drilled into the block
my 454 actually has both sets (the one in my 79 Chev)

The 454HO in the 59 Elky has both sets---using a straight across mini starter that is drilled for both 168 and 153 flywheels.

A new 350 I bought years ago had both sets of holes in the block.

The tiny chevys of the late 70s early 80s may use a different starter, based on space restrictions (remember the v-8 monza?)

And Chevies before around 62 used a belhousing mounted starter.
(I think my 64 Chevy c-10 6cyl also uses one)
 
#23 ·
problem w/ my starter on a 355 with 11.5:1 comp.

hi im having troubles with my starter on my 355. it cranks really hard and i cant get the car to fire. it sounds like it is struggling to spin the engine and will kill a battery after trying to start it multiple times. i have a 168 tooth flywheel and a 168 tooth starter (if im right only 168 starters are diagonal). the engine has 11.5 to 1 comp. and im using a stock starter. right now i shimmed it and it jammed. i dont know whats going on with it. any ideas on what i can play around with?
 
#24 ·
Are you using a remanufactured starter, if so from where?

I think your problem has to do with cranking amps, whether it is the battery, or cables, or the starter. Your cranking compression could also effect your starting problem.

If your battery/cables/connections are good, get a starter that is designed to turn over at least a 12-1 compression engine.
 
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