[Irelands child]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Russ,


All this due to the Smart Grid and the elimination of all the peaks and valleys of our current energy consumption scenario. Sit back and enjoy the show, because this is how it is going to pan out.

Not gonna happen in anyone here's lifetime. As far as Obama and his 'initiative of the day - . Then of course there is the Solyndra "green energy" debacle. The only green is the US taxpayer's wasted money.

Dave W
My last post on this thread, even tho I was the OP. It has gone beyond the original intent, and I too am guilty of that

[Siggy_Freud]

Originally Posted by BarryK

LMFAO.

I could not figure why you had squelched the Methanol thread, since the information would have helped a lot of guys here that did not know.

Now I got it all figured out, no problem as long as we know the rules and I have you figured out.

Hey, maybe you could talk Jon into changing the forum name to "tree huger rods", "Obama's rods" or "Save the trees are us"

Have a great day.

I moved the Ethanol thread from the hotrodding basics to the lounge because it by far had turned into more of a political discussion than a technical one. I didn't dump the thread, edit it, or censor it in any way. I even left a redirect link. The fact that it died is simply a testament to how the thread was progressing downward.

My point in the previous thread was that it's simply asinine to ignore the merits of a car because one person is in favor of it, regardless of who the person is. Especially after saying "well I've never actually seen one of these cars but . . . " That's along the lines of "I know nothing about it, but I hate it anyways."

[BarryK]

Originally Posted by Irelands child

My daily driver - an F350/V10 gasser, maintaining my biggggg carbon footprint.



A story about F350's - and this is my 3rd one. I was backing into a parking space with my '79 long bed super cab. A young lady was trying for the same spot but coming in behind me. My painted bumper - had one minor scratch. Her itty bitty Honda Civic - front end total and needed a wrecker. I never knew that car was there until I heard glass breaking. My truck ended up about a foot from her windshield. Amazing how much damage a big bumper and a Class 4 trailer hitch can do!!

Dave,
Saw you were not going to post but that is a fine looking truck and I love that 10 cyl, I have two friends that have the 10 cyl, one in an F250 and one is a F350 dually.

My theory has always been the bigger the carbon foot print, the finer the machine!

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by Irelands child

Not gonna happen in anyone here's lifetime. :

I'll be sure to revive this thread in 5 years.

[silentpoet]

A smart car is a good spare car, you can fit one in the trunk of a real car.

If I ever win the lottery I am going to buy me a brand new prius and convert it to coal power.

[sparkydog]

I just saw my first Chevy Volt driving down the street in North San Diego county and if I had to choose between it and a Prius I would take the Volt. It looks like a real car so I'm giving it style points!

[a67tempest455]

The biggest problem with the Volt is that it is basically a $41000 Cavalier its not that big and a similar car that was gas only would probably cost less than $20000 so what does that extra $21000 get you? Oh yea you don't have to buy as much gas! Currently I spend about $2000 a year on gas, so I would have to drive that butt ugly POS for ten and a half years with zero maintenance cost and zero gas cost just to break even! So i suppose if you have money flowing out of your butt and you want to drive it just to feel smug and look down your nose at the rest of us that have more sense than cash then yea its a great car. And really, you think the smart grid will happen? Being from Cali you of all people should know how broke the Government is! I don't think China is gonna sign the check for that one. and spending my evenings managing my power distribution for my house doesn't sound like my idea of a good time... but maybe i should try it, maybe it will make me feel smug too...

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by a67tempest455

The biggest problem with the Volt is that it is basically a $41000 Cavalier its not that big and a similar car that was gas only would probably cost less than $20000 so what does that extra $21000 get you? Oh yea you don't have to buy as much gas! Currently I spend about $2000 a year on gas, so I would have to drive that butt ugly POS for ten and a half years with zero maintenance cost and zero gas cost just to break even! So i suppose if you have money flowing out of your butt and you want to drive it just to feel smug and look down your nose at the rest of us that have more sense than cash then yea its a great car. And really, you think the smart grid will happen? Being from Cali you of all people should know how broke the Government is! I don't think China is gonna sign the check for that one. and spending my evenings managing my power distribution for my house doesn't sound like my idea of a good time... but maybe i should try it, maybe it will make me feel smug too...

Let me guess on this one, you think I'm smug?

[Siggy_Freud]

Originally Posted by a67tempest455

The biggest problem with the Volt is that it is basically a $41000 Cavalier its not that big and a similar car that was gas only would probably cost less than $20000 so what does that extra $21000 get you? Oh yea you don't have to buy as much gas! Currently I spend about $2000 a year on gas, so I would have to drive that butt ugly POS for ten and a half years with zero maintenance cost and zero gas cost just to break even! So i suppose if you have money flowing out of your butt and you want to drive it just to feel smug and look down your nose at the rest of us that have more sense than cash then yea its a great car. And really, you think the smart grid will happen? Being from Cali you of all people should know how broke the Government is! I don't think China is gonna sign the check for that one. and spending my evenings managing my power distribution for my house doesn't sound like my idea of a good time... but maybe i should try it, maybe it will make me feel smug too...

You're also banking on gas staying at the same price for the next 10.5 years. 10 years ago it was a third of what it is now . . .

[DanielC]

"You're also banking on gas staying at the same price for the next 10.5 years. 10 years ago it was a third of what it is now . . ."

I do not think the price of gas has gone up in ten years as much as the dollar has declined.

[deckofficer]

Either way, don't you feel it would be preferable to purchase domestic energy, rather than sending trillions of dollars to middle east countries. The rulers of these countries that profit from the sale of their oil, think we are swine. Don't know about some of the posters to this thread, But I don't like to do business with people that think that negative of me.

[DanielC]

I believe we do need an alternative way of moving people around, other than buying oil from middle eastern countries who are not our friends, who then use part of the money to support radical groups who fly our airplanes into our buildings.

Having electric cars available is one option. One could have served me nicely, I just did a 5 mile round trip to a local grocery store. But to believe a government subsidized electric car is the only answer, is ignoring a lot of other options. The electric grid is close to capacity right now. So is electrical generation. Here, in Oregon, due to an unusally wet spring, there was an excess of power from hydroelectric available. In fact, there were times when the Bonneville Power Administration had to run water through the generating turbines, because spilling too much water over the spillways of dams is bad for young fish. The BPA had to tell the wind farms to shut down, we cannot move your electricity on to the grid, it is at capacity, from the dams. That may seem like a good argument for electric cars, but wind farms are located far away from population centers, where electric cars are practical.

In spite of what people think, a wind turbine spinning in the Great Plains is not supplying power to homes on either coast. You cannot send electricity that far. Unplugging your cell phone chargers, and swapping your incandescent light bulbs for CFL lamps is not going to reduce the electrical load enough to make up for the increased electrical use of a home car charging station. I also think that to be able to have widespread use of electric cars, there will have to be programs to convert major heat producing appliances in the home (Kitchen ranges, cloth dryers, hot water, and heating) to natural gas. Most homes in the US are using electricity that was made by burning coal, or natural gas, to create heat, that turns a turbine, that makes a generator spin, that creates electricity, that is put in to hundreds of miles of transmission lines, heating them up, to be delivered to a home, where the electricity is again converted to heat. That cannot be all that efficient. Using that electricity to charge a car probably uses more fuel at the remote located power plant than you realize. Using solar power to charge a car is not going to work in a car you want to drive to work in the morning. Wind power is not reliable enough in most places to charge an electric car at night.

I think the most common sense option available for vehicles right now is to have more emphasis on using natural gas as a personal vehicle fuel.

We also need the government to quit subsidizing using food for fuel production. No more ethanol subsidies. No more converting corn to fuel, that was probably grown using fuel in the first place to run the tractors.

We also need to look at the way we move goods around the country. You probably have seen ads of railroad companies saying they can move a ton for freight a few hundred miles on the equivalent of a gallon of fuel. If that is true, we need to seriously need to reduce the influence of the trucking lobby, and have freight be moved by train. Maybe barging freight on rivers is another option.

I hope you all know there was a proposal to build a oil pipe from Alberta, Canada, to the Gulf of Mexico coast. The present Federal administration shut that down. Canada is now looking at selling the oil to nations on the Western edge of the Pacific Ocean. Nations we are competing with for jobs.

We are in the process of shutting down coal fired electric generating plants. There are also starting to remove some hydroelectric dams, to help endangered species of fish runs. Nuclear power is an option, but last years tsunami in Japan, and the resulting damage to the nuclear plants has probably put a hold on using that for an option for generating electric power.

Like I said, electric cars are one option to help with personal transportation of people. But I really do not think this is the best, or even the most viable option for the majority of people in the USA.

[deckofficer]

DanielC,

Very well thought out post. Sure can't argue the fact that metal wheels on a metal rail offer such a low rolling resistance that it is quite economical to ship our goods by rail, and if time allows, by barge. Using a food crop for fuel with subsidies is not the way either. So far we are in 100% agreement. Natural gas for now is a fine choice also, but burning domestic or foreign fuel, we are still burning and adding CO2 to the atmosphere. Trains through out Europe, Japan and India, where rail transport is king, it is also electric. After a freight train pulls the summit of the Sierras, which do you think is the best way to arrest all that kinetic energy coming down the summit, generating boat loads of heat from friction brakes, OR dumping megawatts into the grid? I choose the later.

[rsfyj]

This is another dumb idea that will put GM in chapt 11 again stupid management practices by jerks... making a car that only the dam rich can buy real smart GM

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by rsfyj

This is another dumb idea that will put GM in chapt 11 again stupid management practices by jerks... making a car that only the dam rich can buy real smart GM

Maybe you don't understand "economies of scale"? Did you purchase a flat screen TV when they were $2500.00, or did you choose to wait for others to purchase, reducing the price by economy of scale, so your purchase cost was $500.00 for waiting two years? Right now the cost and energy capacity of the batteries is the direct reason for the present cost, but again through advancements and economy of scale, the masses will then purchase if the driving experience is a positive one. I can tell you firsthand that the driving experience is very positive.