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Old 01-01-2009, 05:23 PM
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Chevy water pump, long and short of it.

On a small block, what the diff with the short and long water pump? I gots a 73 block,that came out with the short pump right? Can I put a long pump on there? so I can run A.C. and power steering? thank for any help.....

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Old 01-01-2009, 05:31 PM
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You can run either pump on any SBC, providing you have the correct pulleys for it. The long shaft pump allows for all the brackets you need that bolt onto the HEADS, which the older engines did not use.
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Old 01-01-2009, 06:05 PM
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If your 73 had a short pump originally, its either out of a Corvette or a pickup............Passenger cars after 68 had the long pump setup.
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Old 01-02-2009, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho62
If your 73 had a short pump originally, its either out of a Corvette or a pickup............Passenger cars after 68 had the long pump setup.
73 pu's had long pumps...
72 and older were short..
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:16 AM
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Be careful when buying a water pump for a SBC. They now are made two ways ... standard rotation and reverse rotation. The ones for the serpentine belt setups do turn the opposite of the earlier ones.

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Old 01-02-2009, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmark
You can run either pump on any SBC, providing you have the correct pulleys for it. The long shaft pump allows for all the brackets you need that bolt onto the HEADS, which the older engines did not use.
Yup. Short pumps aren't common anymore. Long pumps will give you the option of a few thousand junkyard and aftermarket bracket setups.
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:19 PM
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Hey Thanks Guys, I sure apreciate the help!
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:41 AM
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Long and short of it

You can put a long shaft in place of a short shaft and visa versa but you have to change the pulleys on all of the other componets to match. be sure to check your alingment with a straight edge and if you can do this as a mock up before you install the motor it would be even better. Please read further about some of my other chevy water pump experiences.

Ok guys seem like just about every time I send to an existing post I stir up trouble I don’t mean to but it happens. Let me say that I am posting this not to brag or anything but I am worried about safety! I have seen at least four different size shafts two different lengths and two different diameters on older chevy small block water pumps. So rather then get in to an argument here about what years which ones were made let me tell you my experience. In about 1979 or 1980 I put a 350 crate motor in a chevy truck that I was building for my self. It originally had a six cylinder in it. I had a donor car that I took all of the pulleys and engine accessories off of and it was an older chevy station wagon with a chevy small block and it had been setting for a long time. Because I was installing a new crate motor in the pickup I wanted a new water pump. I can’t remember if the one out of the wagon was a long or short shaft. But even at that time I was aware that there was a long and short shaft. What I did not know about is that there are also at least two different diameters. And that is the statement that will probably stir up trouble. I installed everything including a brand new radiator, shrould, belts, hoses, fan clutch, water pump the whole nine yards and even bead blasted the fan and pulleys and brackets from the wagon and painted them nice and shinny black imron. Well everything looked good and after oh about twenty minutes of run in time setting the timing, idle jets and fiddling with everything I revved it up one good time and BAM all hell busted loose. The water pump shaft snapped and the fan, clutch and pulley went into the new radiator and shroud. And it did this with me and my arm up over the left front fender. I was lucky and everything went into the radiator and none of it came my way. But it sure as hell taught me a lesson. Don’t get in a hurry to hear that motor run! Check everything and check it good!

The story has a good ending in that “Big A” auto parts paid for all of it with everything new. It took the rep about a week to get out to the shop and we took everything apart and that is when we found that the center holes for the pulley, the fan and the clutch were bigger then the stub shaft that protruded out of the water pump shaft at the flange. I had turned in the water pump off the wagon for the core when I bought everything and told the parts guy I was not sure of the year, some where in the early seventies late sixties and I said lets just match one up. I still had the donor car in the field across from the shop and the rep looked at it also. Well the rep told me that there was a short and long shaft which I already knew and he also said there was a small diameter and large diameter shaft but I was not aware of that. The reason the water pump shaft snapped is because the part of the shaft that protrudes out of the flange is what the pulley, the fan and the clutch are centered on and the bolts just hold it all tight. If I remember correctly there is only about a 65 thousands difference between the two but this is enough to throw the balance off and that is what caused the failure. Later on as I used “Big A” water pumps I started seeing a warning tag attached to the pump that read “Warning check pump shaft length and pump shaft diameter to the pump that is being replaced! Catastrophic failure and serious injury can occur if the two pumps shafts are not the same!”

I don’t know if I am prone to bad luck or if during that time I was turning out a lot of work and I just saw more problems then the next guy. But I also encountered a problem with the reverse rotation pumps that were used on the early serpentine drives. To put it blunt don’t put a reverse rotation pump on a “V-belt Drive” and don’t put a standard rotation pump on a “Serpentine Drive” you will cook your engine! In the serpentine configuration the pump turns opposite from the “V-belt drive”.

In about 1990 I did an engine and transmission swap for a customer that had an early eighties late seventies 1-ton chevy truck with a GM/olds diesel in it. He had bought a donor car that had a 400 small block and turbo 400 in it and it did not have very many miles on it. It was an easy swap and everything went good. I insisted on a new water pump, thermostat and I wanted to rod the radiator as well. He went along with the thermostat and the water pump because it had signs of seepage from the weep hole but he passed on the radiator. When I was finished with the job I test drove it and was pleased with how good it ran. He picked it up and drove it home about twenty miles away and had no problems. The next day he put it to work in his lawn and clearing business and that is when it gave trouble. As soon as he loaded it with limbs and debris it ran hot and blew the bottom radiator hose off of it. He towed it to the shop and I checked everything and came to the conclusion that we needed to rod the radiator. I did that and put another thermostat in it, drove it all around and it seemed fine. Well the next day and under a load it did the same thing. He towed it back to the shop; I put it back together and checked everything and all was good. I have seen cases where the impeller has turned a loose from the shaft so something told me to take the water pump off and check it. When I took the back cover off the pump the impeller was intact but something didn’t look right. He had used the one off of the donor car for the core but I did have a few old ones lying around. I took the backs off of about three or so other ones and that is when I found the different impellers. Chevy makes up for the reverse rotation by using an impeller that is angled in the opposite direction but the housings are the same! The housing being the same is where the problems come from and chevy should have cast something different in them to keep this from happening. I put the correct pump on it and the guy put the truck to work and never had anymore trouble out of it. We were lucky that it did not crack the heads or blow the gaskets. We attributed this to the fact that he wasn’t completely sure of the truck and wanted to drive it himself for a few days before he turned it over to the crew. We were sure that if he had let one of his drivers in it then we would have been putting another engine it as well. It was one of the super chains that he had bought the pump from and they would not even warranty the pump because I had taken the back cover off of it. I ate my labor because I’m just that way but I learned a good lesson.

When it comes to Chevy’s and their water pumps turn the core in after you have done the job so that you can check everything! Check pulley alignment with a straight edge, check shaft length and diameter, check the pulley, the spacer (if used) and the fan and clutch for a snug fit on the shaft. Remember the bolts do not center it they just hold everything tight. And if you are not sure of the rotation check that by taking the back cover off as well. A gasket is a lot cheaper then a cooked motor. If you don’t have a donor car and you are piecing the pulleys together be real careful and get as many people to look at it as you can. Above all stay away from cheap flex fans (that’s another story) and be safe because you can be hurt or even killed!

Chris

Last edited by Chris Kemp; 01-03-2009 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:01 AM
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Good info^^.

Quote:
Chevy makes up for the reverse rotation by using an impeller that is angled in the opposite direction but the housings are the same! The housing being the same is where the problems come from and chevy should have cast something different in them to keep this from happening.
Perhaps the re-man companies fault here. The main features of the reverse serpentine pumps are:

Smaller pulley bolt circle.
No provisions for p/s and alt. brackets
No heater hose return

And then if you take the back cover off; different impeller.


All in all, definitely check the stuff as you did, and even then keep your fingers crossed.
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:28 AM
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Hey C-10 I don't want to sound like I am disagreeing with what you said it is right on. All I want to do is add to it. I think if my memory is correct they carried the heater hose outlet for the first couple of years on the serpentine belt drives and I have seen a lot of spacers, clutches and fans with slotted bolt holes so the smaller bolt ring that is on the flange would not stop you from doing this. So with this all said you can easily wind up with a reverse rotation pump on an early engine and it could cook it. Like I said check everything when it comes to chevy SB water pumps. And for God's sake don't trust the 10 dollar an hour guy behind the counter. That is what happened to the chevy 1-ton conversion.

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Last edited by Chris Kemp; 01-03-2009 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 01-03-2009, 12:21 PM
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Remember Safety First, a couple years ago ''Kenny Schrader'' [then famous nascar driver]cut his thumb off in a fan belt, on a personal car he was working on,said a helper started the engine whilst he was checking the belt tension.
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Old 01-03-2009, 02:03 PM
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A few more Pump Specs.>>
http://www.chevytech.com/2c41o1.html

http://www.chevytech.com/2c41o2.html
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Old 01-03-2009, 04:15 PM
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Love those links brother! Good stuff. I down loaded them into a folder. I love the fact that it depicts the long and the short shafts but it also tells about the two different diameters. I have had people tell me that I did not know what I was talking about on this subject. Now if someone comes up with the differences on the serpentine drive pumps then we need to stick all of this in an archive somewhere for future reference. Because this is an area that is too dangerous for trial and error.

Chris
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Old 01-18-2009, 05:04 AM
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chevy water long and short of it

Gentlemen,I want to thank you for all that info I am building a 1994 new short block, for a project and put a serpentine belt set up on it, well quite a few years ago I did some work on a late 70s or early 80s Monte Carlo, the guy said he thought it had a bad water pump on it and had one for me to put on it, well it turned out to be a blown head gasket and he junked the car but left me the pump, and it has laid on my shelf for ever and I decided to put it on this build,the serpentine set up is off a 92 camaro and now after reading this post I will not be able to use this pump. Again thanks to all, a new pump is alot cheaper than a motor.
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