[Ayh127]

For those of you who only buy "American Cars"..... I've got news..... there's no such thing anymore!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/bu...yt&oref=slogin

[MARTINSR]

Rome is burning. This country is truely going down the tubes. So, where are all those Democrats? The Dems have Senate majority, why aren't they stopping this? Because they have their pockets being lined too! Anyone who screams about the GOP and doesn't blame both parties is a FOOL.

Brian

[powerrodsmike]

The barbarians at the gate don't have to shoot spears and catapult rocks at the walls to get in, our gates have been wide open for years and the majority of American people buy up that stuff like kids in a candy store.

It's as much the political system's fault as our own. It isn't the guys you see on here, but the buying habits of the majority show where the loyalties truly are.

The article said that chinese built motor is a noisey, gutless POS, but it was designed here... and a twin to that motor is built here as well..

Originally Posted by NY times article

The same model of engine as the one made in China is produced at a G.M. engine plant in Tonawanda, N.Y

Ironic though that the name of the company in China is Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation.


Later, mikey

[MARTINSR]

Mikey, yesterday I went into a new "market" here in town. This store is in an old shopping center where once a great local grocery store resided. I went in there many times as a kid, still get my hair cut in a barber shop a few doors down. I saw that the used furniture store had closed up and there was a new business in there. I went out of my way to pull in there just to see what they had, I am always ready to hand money to the little local business, especially a new one. So I walk in, the entire place wreaks of Chinese plastic. No kidding, you could barely breath from all the gassing off plastic and vinyl. The shelves were covered, the floor was covered, the crap was falling all over in disarray. This is a pretty big place, probably 4000-5000 square feet FILLED with Chinese junk. The music is blasting RAP "music". I felt like I was in some third world country, or at the very least down at the San Jose flee market. This beautiful store, part of a shopping center that has slipped over the years has slipped down to the least common denominator. WHY? Because there are people willing to go in there and buy that crap. I am not, I walked out never to return, not until they go out of business and another takes over the space.

Brian

"Ironic though that the name of the company in China is Shanghai Automotive" I thought the same thing.

[powerrodsmike]

You can take some comfort in knowing that a similar place opened up here in Gilroy, at the old K marts..(remember them, one of the original perpetrators of chinese import bamboozlement?)

Anyway, it was called D mart, and was set up like a Bazaar, with seperate booths, selling CD's , and underwear and ceramic stuff, videos, cellphones and IIRC there was an arcade too.

It is gone now. It's just as well, it was a hangout for thugs.

Later, mikey

[dinger]

I USED to be a G.M. kinda guy. That went away about 1973. Still, I had hopes that the American car builders would get their sh** together and build a car that didn't need a V-8 to last more than a 100,000 miles. They still haven't done this, the public is growing more savvy as the years go by, now G.M. has dug themselves a fairly deep grave (as have the other 2) and I don't believe they have anyone but themselves to blame.

[QUOTE]Assessing the quality of Chinese manufacturing is difficult, partly because of the design of this particular engine.

Gabriel Shenhar, the senior engineer of Consumer Reports auto test division, said that in the Equinox the engine is coarse, noisy, uses more fuel than similar vehicles and produces relatively little horsepower for its size.

He did not blame the Chinese for those shortcomings. “This engine’s blueprint did not originate in China,” Mr. Shenhar said. “The 3.4 liter, 185 horsepower has always been a lackluster engine.”

He called flaws in the design “a reflection of G.M.’s lack of attention to detail and half-hearted effort on this car.” [QUOTE]

Now here is a huge corporation bringing in the Chinese crap and expecting us to buy it.. JUNK!

[Ayh127]

I agree with Dinger! "The Big Three" have nobody to blame, but themselves! They have been making bad cars and products for years. I don't care what anybody thinks or have deluded themselves to think about GM, Ford, or Chrysler, foreign car manufactures have been building superior cars. Like stated in the article they emphasized that it wasn't that the engine was bad because it was form China, Chevys engines are lackluster and that was an engine designed by GM!

I also agree with Martisnr! If anybody truly believes that any Politician will have the power to change back all the manufacturing....... that just isn't possible. The economies of it all and the dependency on different countries buying from each other is too interconnected. Politicians can't control what huge corporations are going to do.

You know it baffles me that some people still insist on buying American cars! More importantly people still want American Cars! Like I said before... There isn't even such a thing anymore!

[35WINDOW]

Originally Posted by Ayh127

"The Big Three" have nobody to blame, but themselves! They have been making bad cars and products for years. I don't care what anybody thinks or have deluded themselves to think about GM, Ford, or Chrysler, foreign car manufactures have been building superior cars. Like stated in the article they emphasized that it wasn't that the engine was bad because it was form China, Chevys engines are lackluster and that was an engine designed by GM!

You know it baffles me that some people still insist on buying American cars! More importantly people still want American Cars! Like I said before... There isn't even such a thing anymore!

Sorry guys,

American Vehicle quality has come a long way in the last few Years (am I biased? You bet!)-you will ONLY find American Vehicles in my Driveway-I don't like the fact that there are foreign parts on my Cars/Pickups, but I know that the money that I pay will go to pave American Highways-I had a 2000 Yukon that I gave to one of my Sons with over 220,000 miles on it- it has the 5.3, and I had the compression checked when I gave it to him-it had 170# in 5 holes and 175# in the remaining three-it is in terrific shape, and it has over 250,000 Miles on it-it is still a great vehicle, and I wouldn't hesitate to drive it anywhere.

As for quality, Ford has won J.D. Powers top Award for initial quality for vehicles sold in America:

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...spx?ID=2007088

I, for one, do not understand how people can complain about the situation in which we find ourselves in America today if they will not stand 100% behind American Companies-it just makes no sense to stand and complain when you won't be part of the solution-

[speedydude]

35 window, I agree and it's good to see an American car/truck still going strong at 220000. Don't even get me started on the Chinese crap.

Question though for the sake of this thread............where was that particular engine made??? Here or elsewhere???

[35WINDOW]

Originally Posted by speedydude

35 window, I agree and it's good to see an American car/truck still going strong at 220000. Don't even get me started on the Chinese crap.

Question though for the sake of this thread............where was that particular engine made??? Here or elsewhere???

speedydude,

I think you are missing my point, but I suspect the Block was cast (and/or assembled) in Mexico-could absolutely be wrong-I read an Article the other day where some Gentleman had over a million miles on a GM Pickup-he did replace some Transmissions, Radiators and such, but my understanding is that the Engine had not been out of the Vehicle (or the Heads off).

My point is that we need to support Companies that primarily pay Taxes on profits in America-Ford, Chrysler, Harley Davidson, whomever. Granted, Companies like Honda, Toyota, Subaru and such that have ASSEMBLY Plants in America do pay Taxes, however their Corporate Profits go to Japan (bigger $$$ is where their Taxes go to pave Japanese Roads/Infrastructure).

I apologize-I am not trying to start a debate here-I just feel very strongly that our forefathers did not go to War, live/die for what we are doing today-if we are to save ourselves (from ourselves) we need to stand together as our Parents did about 67 Years ago-o.k., that's off my chest-off the Soapbox now!

[speedydude]

I got the point and agree. It was a curious question.

I do think American companies need to realize they can no longer rest on their laurels and put the gloves on.


Design and build some great stuff where all Americans can feel good about buying a car or truck made here. Some of it is just economics. When you buy a Ford escort and it only goes 120k and a Honda civic goes over 300k, most people on a budget will pick the Honda. The big 3 have to create something that makes you want to buy here.

Let's be honest though, some of this comes down to how well you take care of your vehicle.

[boatbob2]

Hi,i have a 2005 nissan frontier pickup,the transmission is the only part made in Japan,most foreign cars are now built here,with SOME parts from Japan.i have only 75,000 miles on the truck,but,no problems at all. i also have a 97 chev venture van,wITH only 154,000 miles on it,replaced auto trans at 105,000,both power windows,both outside mirrors,and both of the headlight covers (discolored) wife loves the van,and its great to drive,i also have 3 --350 chevy sbc,all HECHO IN MEXICO, THEY HAVENT BEEN ANY TROUBLE yet.

[MARTINSR]

Bob, you would be amazed at how many parts on your Nissan came from Japan! Not only do the parts come from Japan, but many of the "assemblies" assembled here are made with Japanese componants.

I have a cousin in the automotive assembly componant business. He told me how Toyota MADE them buy componants for the bearings that they made from Toyota owned companies! This started back in the seventies when the Japanese were bringing in trucks without beds on them. The bed was made here and installed to beat the tariff on commercial vehicles!

These companies are called "screw driver companies" all they do is screw together in the US, imported parts.

Brian

[sprecher48]

As my friend Theo(TAO) said;"we don't have to visit the "third World" it came to us.(my country,I weep for thee)Tom

[Dave57210]

Originally Posted by MARTINSR

You would be amazed at how many parts on your Nissan came from Japan! Not only do the parts come from Japan, but many of the "assemblies" assembled here are made with Japanese componants.

I have a cousin in the automotive assembly componant business. He told me how Toyota MADE them buy componants for the bearings that they made from Toyota owned companies!

Brian

AND therein lies the issue - while Toyota, Nissan, Honda, (etc) are all ensuring that they OWN the supplier companies (vertical integration), GM Ford & Mopar are SELLING OFF their in-house suppliers and outsourcing.

Results: Toyota buys from their in house supplier- profits go back to Toyco. And Toyco controls all aspects of quality control.

Meawhile GM (and Ford & etc) buys from lowest price suppliers (just like Wallyworld does) and uses its massive buying clout to force the supplier to keep costs down (and quality suffers - just like at Wallyworld)

One recent year, the ONLY profitable division at Ford was Ford Credit (the Bank of Ford), which Ford promptly SOLD!

Now if (for whatever illogical and perverted reason) my job was to manage a company in such a way that the sole purpose was to destroy it, to run it into the ground, I think I would follow the leads of every single auto exec in the (used to be) BIG 3. Take value out, use shoddy components, use poor designs, fail to differentiate between brands, and ensure that my competitors built longer-lasting, more reliable and lower priced products, then blame the unions for everything, and start outsourcing everything. Above all, ensure that all decision-makers are accountants, not car people. After all, we are just making "product", right?