I've been doing some thinking, it's hard for a partard like me to think. Anyway, it seems to me that the value of gas guzzling classic cars is going down, period. It's not necessarily that they are worth less in actuality, but the fact that people are not going to buy a 10 mpg 3:73 Muncie 70 Camaro. Therefore, the value would go down because of the laws of supply and demand. This all because of, let's face it, gas is going to be 4 dollars. Then 5, then 6, then 7, just imagine 7 dollars a gallon. Let's go back to 1972, working the inflation factor here too, in cali gas was 34 cents a gallon, in today's value that's a $1.34. Remember right around '98 when gas dipped below a buck? Cali Gas was $1.16, and with inflation factored in, a $1.40. 1998 was the 2nd cheapest year ever for gas with inflation factored in. Of course flash foward to now and we are at over 3.00 a gallon across the nation. By this summer we will probably see a 300 percent rise in the in price of gas in less then 10 years. Inflation only rose by like a little more then 20 percent about. Minimum wage in 72 was about 1.60. In 98 cali minimum wage was 5.75. In cali now it's 7.50. So in 72 wage slave could buy a gallon of gas in a about 13 min. In 98 a wage slave could in about 12 minutes. In 2007, it takes 24 minutes of labor to buy a gallon of gas. So in reality, the amount of work required by a wage slave to earn a gallon of gas has doubled in less then ten years. It will probably double again in less then 5, if this new curve continues.
Interesting to note, in Germany, they pay a little more then a euro for a liter. Thats about 5 to 6 bucks a gallon, I've seen it I was there last december. They get along because of public transportation, they walk more, and tiny cars. This is all made possible by the fact that they have 90 million germans crammed into an area smaller then montana. Also japan same thing, 130 million people crammed onto some islands the size of montana. Those are the other leaders in the world economy, with china, india, and a bunch of other smucks coming up fast. The point is america, being huge in size, is going to be hurt worst by gas prices going insane, which they will. The world economy will shut down, and it will be worse then the great depression. It is going to be bad, there will be too many people and not enough energy to support them. People could say well by that time we'll have some alternative energy to use. It will be too little, too late, that should be obvious now. I believe that world's economic machine is heading for a crash, it's quite obvious when you look at all the debt we are in, both the average citizen and the government. All it needs is a substantial trigger. That trigger is terrifying gasoline prices. The news, like a bunch of idiots, will tell you to get worried and scared that the housing market is slowing and it's going to slow down the whole economy. That sort of thing is a small order of fries compared to the 15 dollar uber burger that is gas prices exploding. Here's the scenario, bob goes to work, but can barely make it because gas is so high. Bob doesn't buy much anymore. Other bobs do not buy from our bob's employer, employer fires bob. Other bobs get fired for the same reason, and bammmmm, chain reaction takes place. It doesn't stop there, bob can't pay the interest on his debt anymore, and neither can the other bobs, so the credit company's go under. Perhaps bob will not be even be able to pay his taxes. Inflation of course will go crazy, then everyone's money is worthless, and the economy is ruined. Does congress have any foresight to prevent this very possible reality we may be living in soon? Of course not, those old pigs are corrupt and foolish, how obvious does it have to be? We are so screwed, that's all I'm saying. Let's enjoy rodding while we can I guess.

This kind of doom and gloom projection is not unique to our generation. In every decade, every point in history folks have thought their problems were long-term, insurmountable and unless solved would end humanity.

Gasoline is an issue. First, however, I don't think you can classify the entire "classic car market" as ever going up and down, because sections of it move independently of the rest. For example, 5 years or so ago mid-year corvettes were on the upswing. Other models that were previously doing well start falling off in trends. But even so, the real value of higher-dollar cars that really dictates the value of the classic car market as a whole I think is hardly dictated by how much gas they use... especially when you can spend 150 dollars for a re-pop set of badges for your fenders, and you drive it maybe 2500 miles a year.

As far as the world economy collapsing, I won't say whether that will or will not happen in our lifetime. I think its short-sighted to think that folks are just going to keep living the same as they do as economic pressure increases and suddenly they realize they can't afford to live anymore and just shut down. If we're headed toward a crisis, you're going to feel the pressure undoubtedly. Sure, gas prices will go up. There might start being laws about when you can drive and how much. Gas rationing, etc.

The world market/economy and the structure of energy demand and distribution is constantly changing. No linear or exponential model remains true for very long... this is one of the first things we learn in our math classes. In all of our lifetimes we're certainly going to see some drastic changes in the way we live and do business, but that is not unlike any other point in history. One of the great lessons of history is to look beyond the problems of today and focus on solutions for tomorrow. With every impending disaster of our historical past ultimately disproved, I'm surprised that so few are still refusing to do that-

K

If the politicians don't stop allowing corporations to close down factory's and production of American made goods, and sending them to foreign country's, there won't be any need to buy gas to get to work,,because there won't be any jobs to go to, just today I read where a huge corp, Trident,, that makes rail cars and shipping containers,head quartered here in Oregon with a rail car factory here, employing 1300 people,, is shutting down a factory in Canada and laying off, 1500 people,, because the wage and benefit package is 45$ per hr compared to 14$ in Mexico, even after they had just signed a labor agreement 2 weeks ago with the union,,,,another huge corp Here,, Freighliner trucks, owned by Daimler- Bentz. has already laid off 800 people just last week, and yep you guessed it moved to MEXICO,,
Not only do we have to give them our jobs,, we have to give them our social security and health insurance,, where's it all going to end,,, In a total bust of the nation,, we will all be in a depression worse than the 30's, and we will all be praying 5 times a day,, whether we like it or not,,,,,,,
as for the cost of fuel and energy,, someone needs to get off their a s s and push through a alternative fuel ,, which I believe there is already the technology for ,, its just being suppressed by the government and the big corps,,

This is all fine and dandy, but that situation is not likely going to happen.



That situation would be more like Bob goes to work and barely making it by because of gas. Bob changes his transportation to a cheaper form or looks for employment closer to home to cut transportation costs. The rest doesn't take place.

The only thing that is constant in this world is change. That is it.

John

Gladis,
It's good that you are thinking about these things, no matter how hard it may be for you.

The USA has been on a constant upward path for a very long time and in todays economic climate, may have to make some adjustments. The countries you have mentioned, Germany, Japan, China and here in the United Kingdom, have never had the same good times.

Japan, Germany and the UK were completely bankrupt after the second world war, we have just this year made our last debt repayment to the USA who bailed us out with a loan after the war.

From 1945 to 1955, everything in my life was rationed, Gas, food, clothes. There was no question of driving to the Shops, apart from the fact that nobody except the Doctor had a car, there was nothing in the Shops to buy, even if you had the money.

I'm not suggesting that the USA might fall that far, I hope not because if America sneezes, we catch Pneumonia. It seems to me that a lot of what your manufacturing industry is making, is not right for the market of today.

Cars are a prime example, your Auto Industry is in deep trouble, not just one car maker, but all of them, which should tell you that their products are not what the customer wants, or expects.

We have had some very bad times here since the days of rationing, in 1973 the Conservative Government put the country on a 3 day working week to conserve energy, can you imagine that if the whole of the USA was put on a 3 day working week every man and woman, you might have to do that if the Oil runs out.

Today we have no Auto Industry, I will leave you to remember the names, Jaguar, Rover, Aston Martin, Rolls Royce, Bentley. We have no Steel Industry, no Coal Industry, no Shipbuilding Industry, the Fishing Fleet can only go to sea a certain number of days per year because of depleted stocks.

I expect you are wondering what has kept us afloat after losing all that, the answer is North Sea Oil and Gas, when that runs out in around 25 years we will be back for another loan.

I think a big problem is the fact that so many people have been taught to live outside their means. The constant barrage of credit card offers, subprime mortgage lending (ARMs, 40 and 50 year mortgages, introductory "teaser" rates, etc), long term auto loans (greater than 48 or 60 months for most vehicles) has taught people to think about what minimum monthly payment they can afford and stretch that as long as they can rather than picking a payment structure they can still afford and pay back in a reasonable amount of time. Or, better yet, pay cash when you can and don't use your house as an ATM.

Three years ago a friend of mine refinanced his house and got a 5.625% interest rate. His mortgage payment was less than $450/month. He decided to take out a line of credit against the house. The original limit was $7000. He maxed that out and the bank offered to raise that to $30,000 so he did. He rolled his 5th wheel (originally financed with an 84 month loan) over to the line of credit then went out and spent $13,000 on two brand new quads and $5000 on a brand new enclosed trailer to haul them. Then just a few months ago he refinanced AGAIN and rolled all of that into one payment that is now just under $1000/month because he could "afford the payment" and opened another $20,000 line of credit...

If you can't afford the payments and cost to drive a $40,000 truck then don't buy it! If you have alternative forms of transportation available to you then take advantage of them.

Man it's good to see this post, Blazin! You're 100% right. We're so inundated with credit offers and "creative financing" schemes that we sometimes forget the bottom line - literally and figuratively. Sure, you can afford a low monthly payment, but look at the total price you're paying when all is said and done. The rule I was taught is simple: the longer you pay, the more you pay.

We don't look at that anymore. We all have to have the top of the line goodies, gadgets, and toys. Sometimes to impress ourselves, and sometimes to impress others. Well, all of that stuff doesn't necessarily mean you have more money, it just means you have higher payments. Meanwhile we're mortgaging our future to play now, and relying on future generations to take care of us when we're in our 70s and 80s and living on a monthly $800 check from the government because we were too busy living for the day and not planning for retirement.

I agree with Blazin 100%. Its tough to see your friends make those mistakes with credit. There seems to be some kind of disconnect as to what people think they can pay every month/what something actually costs. For example look what blazin's friend is paying! From what I can tell he's got about 50g's or more of debt from all these toys he owns and its all financed over the next 10 years or so. Think of that: you've spent your next TEN YEARS worth of money in advance!

Another terrible decision I see a lot of people make is with cars. They go out and buy as much car as the possibly can afford, finance it for too long (yes, i've seen people 7 year car loans which is ridiculous). Then they wonder why they're sitting home on saturday night eating hot-pockets while their friends are all out eating steak. People spend money on cars and never think about the fact that the thing loses so much value so fast that you can't even THINK about selling it for 3-5 years depending on how long you financed it for, because its not even worth what you owe on it! Thats why I'll probably always buy a used machine.

Recently came up on that decision myself. I was in the market for a car lately and just bought one last weekend. I won't say that I wasn't tempted to get a cool audi or a BMW or somethign really swanky, but I thought, you know if I spend 200 less on a payment every month maybe I could retire a year earlier or so. Maybe I'll have a little extra savings in case of an emergency, or maybe if I lose my job ever I won't be up S-t creek without a paddle.

God, don't even get me started on retirement. Some people don't invest at ALL!

K

Try 30 years. He's had the house for almost six years and has already refinanced twice. Not only did his monthly payment more than double but he went from 5.625% to a little over 7%.

Ouch. I just bought a 5 year old car and my interest rate is lower than that!

30 years of financing money you spent on toys. Think of how much interest you're paying on that!

'nuff to make you want to puke.

K

Retirement is the biggest overlooked thing people do,, They do not think about the future at all,, especally young people,, they would rather have the money today for all the nice toys and stuff,, but it won't be long before age starts creeping up and trying to build a retirement nest egg is almost gone, or something happens and you aren't able to work anymore,, I was in the carpenters union for 35 years,, and was able to retire early with a decent income,, so now I can enjoy things a little more , knowing I have a income for the rest of my life,,
My oldest son is doing the same thing,, he's 38 Y/O and already has 20 years in the union,, he can retire with a good income at the age of 50, He is trying to get my youngest son to do the same,, but for some stupid reason he thinks he will get rich building hotrods,, but hopefully he will come around,,

Bill

You're absolutely right about this Bill, but unfortunately it's not just the young who don't think about retirement. Everyone reading this knows somebody who did the "toys, gadgets, and goodies" thing when they were young, and didn't put anything away for later on in life. Now that they're facing retirement at age 70, they realize what a bleak financial future they really have. We all know somebody who is still working at age 70 or above because they have to, not because they want to.

I was raised by the son and daughter of people who lived through the dust bowl days and the great depression. We were always a close family, and they taught me that you don't waste anything - no matter how inconsequential it may seem at the time. Still today when I call my Grandmother, her first concern is what we had for dinner. She did without so many times that food became one of the most important things in her life. Money was something you never squandered. If you wanted something, you either worked for it, made it yourself, or you did without. Even as a kid I watched how my grandparents lived on their Social Security checks, and whatever side work they could still manage to do, and I decided that I would never live like that.

Yeah, I drive an '82 El Camino daily. It's not the most glamorous vehicle on the road, but I don't owe anybody a dime on it except my insurance agent and the dude down at the gas station when I fill it up. My wife drives a 2004 Jeep, but it's paid off and she's about ready to trade it in on another one. They suit our purposes, and we're not shelling out extravagant amounts of money for them. We put what we save into the bank, our house, and investments that offer a good return. When I retire, I want to be able to retire. I don't want to be a greeter in a store someplace because the wage made there is the difference between having electricity this month and sitting in the dark.

We're victims of our own success. We've become so affluent as a nation that we see money as something that isn't really all that important. While it's not the most important thing in the world, try doing without it for a while and tell me it isn't important.

It appears that I'm preaching to the choir here, and I know I do tend to ramble. But when I see something I'm passionate about, I have to comment. We just gotta teach our kids and grandkids that your future isn't something to mortgage off so you can play now. You can still play, but do it within your means. A BMW doesn't mean somebody has money - it means he/she has big payments.

If I may, I'd like to recommend a book titled The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy. It's available at the usual places, or check it out from the local library. It's worth reading if you're interested in this type of thing. Lots of surprising facts in that book, believe me. Here's a Wiki article on it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millionaire_Next_Door

Hi year it does seam like drastic times. You should here the left wing socalist crap we get fed in New Zeland on a daily basis it makes me sick. For a start your an as#### if you prefer to drive a V8 or socialy iresponsible, another couple of years and it will be as bad as drink driving. We are that smaller country that we contribute 0.01% of polution to the world. Now these dumb ***** in goverment say you should dump your Gas Guzzler and buy Hybrid cars, this is a shortcut to thinking for a few reasons. They cant tell you the puloution figures of making a new car, They havent thought about what to do with the batteries these cars take, there well overpriced, and its a major invasion of privacy . Gas is $1.60 per litre over here or around $6.50 a gallon and our dollar is around 71cents US so the average v8 guy can only aford to bring his car out a few times a mounth, so I dont see us hot rodders as a prob. Were a minority being victamised buy a coalition extreme left wing corupt comunist goverment made up of greens,do gooders,anti family ,gays, lesbians ,tranys ect. They are Fing our country they are trying to make everyone equal take away peoples ability to think for them self, hell you cant even grab your kid from running in front of a car or some f##### up social worker might have you charged for asault on your kid. This is scary stuff and not what my grandad went to war for. Youve got more rights as a criminal than a victim over here. Lots of these ***#### in goverment have never done a days work in their life spent their time protesting over some poor bastard trying to make an ohnest days living logging or something these Ill informed do gooders come along, get publicity get the show shut down,the workers get the craps with society go on the doll and theive to make a living off people like me and you. Mean while the protesters get in goverment and try and tell the workers who pay their exsessive wagers how to live your life. I know Im off track here a bit but thats how it is over here, and it highlights a major prob that we all face of taking away our fredom. If the US caves into this left wing movement coming from do gooder european countrys were all screwed. You get locked up in Sweeden for smacking your kids and do you think it penalises the real child beaters,of course not theyl do it any way.So stay american proud buy american dont buy off Us manufacters who have sold their sole and decieded to get it made in China their weak. Cheers and sorry about spelling its crap I know.

Give the country back to the Maori and let them run it.