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Old 02-09-2005, 01:53 AM
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Clear coat

I have read through a lot of the post and found nothing directly related to my question. I want to have depth to the clear coat. I am fairly skilled at prep, paint, cut, and buff and can do decent jobs although I am by no means professional. Is there an additive to give the clear the look of being deep? I have had different people suggest different things. Paint three coats, block and add more coats until you get the desired effect. This looks like it would create a huge film build up. I have a couple of more months in Iraq but my wife has a couple of my friends taking the car apart and has sent a few photos. I will start a album so you can see the progress. It looks like someone threw a grenade inside because my shop is covered with pieces! Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, dwhitt

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Old 02-09-2005, 05:53 AM
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What color sill this car be? The clarity and amount of the clear affects how deep the finished product will look on BC/CC jobs. Doing a two step clear with sanding between applications will add to the depth. Allowing good flash time between coats will reduce any haze from solvents being trapped. Mixing a compatable clear with single stage solid colors really adds depth.
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Old 02-09-2005, 06:05 AM
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AS stated above, mixing a little base in with your clear will achieve the desired result. I would decrease the amount of base per coat of clear until the final coat is nothing but clear.

Vince
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Old 02-09-2005, 06:44 PM
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This is most likley the toughest question on the board to answer without writing 25 pages.
Some points to consider, than we can go from there.
Gloss and depth is not the same, a single stage will take much better pictures and look better from 15 yards out gloss wise.
However single stage up close will have almost no depth.
That is why single stages will never win a real car show, local conner show sure but no chance of a major.

If you take the same paint system and paint over a GM factory job and a ford job and a redo job, you will have different levels of gloss and depth. This is how important the substrate is to the final
look of the clear. Best to strip and use epoxy. Acid etch can account for around 5% loss of gloss by itself.

Remembering the substrate statement flash time starting with primer is most important, this is probably the number one reason for lack of gloss.
Base coat is the next most important flash times think hours between coats not minutes.

Clear is like a diamond, they each have their clarity level, so choose a good one.
A high solids clear is always your best bet (more mils per coat.)
Never apply more than three coats of clear a day.
after the first three wet sand and re clear again for perfection.
This is not all but its the basics.

Last edited by BarryK; 02-09-2005 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 02-09-2005, 07:07 PM
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BarryK said it right. In my opinion, the color of the car is what makes it look deep. Out of all the paint companies, they all have clears and they all shine or can be made to shine by polishing or doing a flowcoat(clear,wetsand,reclear). House of Kolor products are made for custom work and custom work only. To me, thats a plus. Back to my point about the color, I've painted a thousand brown/beige metallics and no matter how much clear or how much polishing they just don't shine or look deep. To me it's the color that matters.
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Old 02-09-2005, 08:10 PM
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Quote: AS stated above, mixing a little base in with your clear will achieve the desired result. I would decrease the amount of base per coat of clear until the final coat is nothing but clear.

Vince

Vince, You can mix some urethane clears and urethane single stage colors together if they share a common hardener but I wouldn't mix basecoat with a urethane clear as it would probably hurt the durability of the finished product. Some manufacturers do recomend mixing basecoat with specific urethane clears for use in jambs and panel undersides for higher productivity, these areas are not exposed to sunlight etc. so durability can be compromised in thier opinion.
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Old 02-09-2005, 08:18 PM
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Up to 10% would not affect the clear durability, over it sure would.
I think adding base to the clear is bad advice as its turning it into a Pearl coat and I fail to see how you will gain any gloss from that and what about matching down the road because it will change it.

The polyesters of the base will cloud the clear to a degree.
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Old 02-10-2005, 02:04 AM
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Paint color

Thanks everyone for the advice. The color choice is still up in the air. It is a '69 Camaro that was factory Burnished Brown. I can't bring myself to paint it brown so the top choices are Azure Blue, Ralley Green, and Hugger Orange. Did I understand correctly that the longer I let the base coat flash between between coats the better off I will be? I understand this lets the solvents evaporate completely. Also, is it OK to have six coats of clear provided I do three, wet sand and reapply? Will this affect the durability/life of the paint job? Thanks again, dwhitt
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Old 02-10-2005, 03:54 AM
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In short solvents cloud the clear and depth.

Acrylic urethane clears will get weaker with excess so a polyurethane is always best but three coats and a slick wet sanding with 400-800 than re cleared and than 1500 and buffed
you will be in safe zone with most good clears.
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Old 02-10-2005, 06:48 AM
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Re: Paint color

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dwhitt
Did I understand correctly that the longer I let the base coat flash between between coats the better off I will be? I understand this lets the solvents evaporate completely.

That's right as far as I'm concerned, let your base coat and clear
coats flash longer and you will get better results in the long run.
Be carefull though, you can go to long, my Dupont base says you
have to topcoat within 24 hrs or else you have to remove and start over.
You can go to long but different brands have fifferent windows of
recoating time so check with your supplier for yours.
I find allowing more time between recoating has been the single
best help for me, less shrinkage and better appearance.
Most of the times given by the mfg are the minimum, my Dupont
says min 30 minutes for base before clearing, I usually wait an hour.
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Old 02-10-2005, 08:34 AM
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I believe some of the "direction's" are hype by the paint manufactures to sell their product. As most customers are shops needing to get it done and out the door in the least amount of time. So if Brand X will be ready in 5 min. and Brand Y takes 15 min. who's you gonna use??
Just a hypothesis but I ALWAY'S wait longer than "recommended" between coats. You generally have 24 hrs. to clear and sometimes things happen to detain you from the next coat. And you wonder why some jobs turn out so good.
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Old 02-10-2005, 01:32 PM
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BE4ME:

You don't know how right you are!
Everything the majors make is made for the chevy dealer.
Perfect controlled temps and $70,000 paint booth.
The consensus is that is where the business is going and the small shops are going away.

Saw a report a week ago the biggest growth in the repair business last 5 years has been the rod builders and restoration shops.

Last edited by BarryK; 02-10-2005 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 02-10-2005, 09:00 PM
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Quote:Be carefull though, you can go to long, my Dupont base says you
have to topcoat within 24 hrs or else you have to remove and start over.

With Dupont's Chroma Base and Chroma Premier Base if you go over the 24 hour window all you need to do is apply a coat of 222S or another fresh coat of base and the window is opened again for another 24 hours. I've done multi colored jobs that have taken a week of applying colors without any problems using 222s to freshen the base before applying clear.

dwhitt, I'm currently doing a full body resto on a 69 Camaro Z-28 RS that will be painted the original Burnished Brown- what an odd color. Looks more green than brown IMO.
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Old 02-11-2005, 08:12 AM
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always remember , i dont think you can get a buffed finish from any spray gun, no matter how slick you get the car. buffing makes all the difference in the world!!
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Old 02-11-2005, 10:43 AM
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Sure you can.

Just look at any OEM finish....

Sad to pay that kind of money for a vehicle and it look's like my first paint job.
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