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Clear Coat Adhesion Problems

25K views 31 replies 15 participants last post by  ScoT Frenzel 
#1 ·
Greetings!

I spent a good portion of my spring and early summer trying to paint my S10. I had a LOT of problems during that time. Chemical reactions such as fish eyes and lifting drove me nuts as did getting the paint's mixing ration correct. After nearly 3 months of trial an error, I thought I finally got it right. After all my hard work, I had this to show for it..





As awesome as it looked, it still needed to be cut and buffed. That FINALLY got started today.

My buddy who was doing the buffing for me covered the various seams around the roof with masking tape to prevent any build up of compound. When he removed the tape, the clear coat came up in sheets.





The entire upper half of the door, for example, in a single sheet.



The entire truck peeled off in the same way. In the few pieces where I couldn't pick the clear coat up with my nail, a piece of masking tape removed it.


The entire truck in a bucket.


I've seen clearcoat fail before, but, never like this. I have no idea how I managed to **** this one up. All the materials I used came from PaintForCars.com. They said if I needed any additional material, I could mix in PPG products so I did use PPG reducers. I am at a total loss.

Random thought.

I usually add adhesion promoter and fish eye remover to my first coat of color and clear. Could that have something to do with it? The same stuff is in the base that I used in the clear.

I used Bulldog Adhesion Promoter and DX73 PPG Fish eye eliminator.

As best as I can tell, the adhesion on the actual paint is fine. When lifting the clear coat, the paint stuck fine.

We let the base flash for at least 20 minutes before spraying the clear.

I'm not sure what happened, really. It laid down nice and smooth. Sure, it ran in a few spots, but, that was painter's error and something we should have been able to buff out.

It looked **** when it dried. It scuffed fine for the buffing. Blue masking tape was enough to lift the clear off the paint, though.

I'm not sure how to handle the situation at this point. Do I buy some higher grade clear and reshoot the clear after some touch ups? Do I strip all the paint off and start from scratch?

This is the exact Adhesion Promoter that I used. The manner in which I'd always used Adhesion Promoter was to use it in the first coat of base and clear. The other coats didn't need it because we were spraying wet on wet, basically.

Same goes for the fish eye remover. As long as the entire vehicle was covered with that first coat, there was never any reason to add it the next.

I have since learned that this is wrong. If I insist on using AP, I should spray it before applying primer. Do NOT mix it into the base or the clear

With the exception of under the mirrors and some panel edges, most of the clear coat has been stripped. I just need to give the whole thing a once over to make sure nothing has been left behind. What should be my next step?

Do I want to strip the truck down to bare metal? In addition to the factory paint and what I've done, I know of at least one other paint job that has been done to the truck.

Should I reclear what I've got with another brand of clear?

Obviously, if I were to reclear what I've got, I'd now have to go through and scuff everything and repeat all the basic prep work, without adding AP or Fisheye.


BTW, if any of this reads weird, I copied it from multiple posts I made on S10F before I was directed here.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
I don't know what the cause was, nor have I used any products from paint for cars. Not knowing those products, what exactly you did and used.

First off, why are you adding so much crapola to your base and clear?
Fisheye elimanator is used as a last ditch attempt to cover a paint job that has already fisheyed. I don't use it. You are also contaimating your gun for future jobs, as your basically adding silicone to the paint. It also may be some part of the reason for all that orange peel you got. Fisheye elimator tends to cause it to spray with more orange peel.

Same with adhesion promotor. No reason to really use it, if you prep and do a thorough job sanding, its not needed. And everyone I ever used, you spray the adhesion promotor on first, not add it to the paint. The only time I would consider using it is on certain problem plastics- tpo, where its needed to help primer or paints to stick, it lowers the surface tension.

Could be many causes for loss of adhesion. Poor prep, not enough clear mil thickness, sprayed to dry, improper use of products-incompatabilitys, too little time between coats, too much time between coats (chemical adhesion).

Its important to have the product data sheets for you products, and read them and follow them. Many use different companys products together (cept should use the correct hardeners), and most different companys primers, basecoats and clears seem pretty compatable with one another, but your always taking a chance if you stray from manufactures instructions and recommended products. Get a mixing stick or mixing cup from a paint jobber to mix paint to the right ratio of paint, hardener clear. There are many good brands of automotive paints- basecoat, clearcoat, primers, and I suspect they would have better information about proper use of the products (product data sheets) and support, and likely improve the chances of success.

As far as what to do now that its peeling, at bare minimum you will have to go down and take off what ever isn't adhering. If its the clear that isn't adhering to the base, you will have to take off the clear and go down at least to the base. And you will have to respray the base. Not only will sanding the base likely leave you with a blotchy looking base when recleared, if the base has been exposed at all, its no longer good, and you can't just reclear, or you'll likely have the same problem.
 
#3 ·
The last post pretty much just summed it up.

Addittives just make more problems if not properly used. No offense to the place where you brought your stuff from but I have found it alot easier to go to the paint store and talk to someone who can look at what your doing.

Not sure how the truck was before you started but one coat of sealer should have been sprayed over the body work and old paint followed by the base coat white then tape it for the blue and pull the tape off and three coats of clear.

If it was my truck I would sand it completly down wih 240-320 and start over. Trying to fix what you have started you are going to waste more time and money.
 
#4 ·
I guess I was wrong. Just read the data sheet on the bulldog, and looks like it can be mixed with the paint to use as a flex agent. At any rate, shouldn't be needed. If the stuff you used is a urethane, it is plenty flexable as it as, and you don't add flex agent to basecoat. The data sheet also says its not compatable with enamels, so if you used an enamel based paint, so could possibly be a problem if the products you used were enamel.
http://www.wmbarr.com/ProductFiles/Z0214 BULLDOG adhesion promoter TDS.pdf
 
#5 ·
Jaymez said:
I used Bulldog Adhesion Promoter and DX73 PPG Fish eye eliminator.

.
Thanks for posting up so others can learn.

In various experiences with the Bulldog , I've found only a half coat or drop coat where you can't spend time prepping by abrading is the most one should use..no way a full wet coat and repeat like shampoo etc as stated on the can .. better off with out.

http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthread.php?p=38049#post38049



Rx, , wetsand flat with 400 , rebase on there and reclear without any Bulldog or solvent based cleaners ...
 
#6 · (Edited)
First of all, lets get things cleared up here.

I don't know the place you ordered the stuff from, don't know if its bottom of barrow stuff or the very best but will give you this fact, it had nothing to do with problem.

Pictures tell everything and looking at pictures, the clear looks like crap, cloudy, (trapped solvents in clear from the base) and very uniform orange peel, the orange peel is so perfect and even, I don't care how good a painter is, he could never duplicate this look, (contraction of base)

You have two issues here, you are peeling the large sheets off because of solvent trap in the base, as well as using fish eye eliminator in the base, you never do that, if you want the clear to stick.

The orange peel is contraction, that is caused by the base contracting as solvents escape and the clear magnifies it.

Dark green, Blue and blacks are the main causes of this and if enough solvent is trapped, it will break adhesion as the clear dries. (you have both)

Base rarely fisheyes, if it happens, you stop. Period and correct.

Also the silicone in the base from the fish-eye additive is still there, the base must come off as nothing will stick a 100% and you cannot clean it out of the base.
 
#7 ·
I was there to watch the clear go on, as well as come off.

So, BarryK, just to clarify, you are saying that the orange peel was caused by solvent trap, etc, and NOT applicator error? I want to clarify because there's some people on another forum insisting it was caused by applicator error and I'm sure that is not the case, as I watched the clear flow as it went on and it flowed fine and the peel only appeared after it started to dry.

Also, I'm wondering if contamination in the air lines could have contributed to this at all?
 
#8 ·
EDAA said:
I was there to watch the clear go on, as well as come off.

So, BarryK, just to clarify, you are saying that the orange peel was caused by solvent trap, etc, and NOT applicator error? I want to clarify because there's some people on another forum insisting it was caused by applicator error and I'm sure that is not the case, as I watched the clear flow as it went on and it flowed fine and the peel only appeared after it started to dry.

Also, I'm wondering if contamination in the air lines could have contributed to this at all?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

That is exactly right, you cannot lay clear slick and then it orange peels.

As you said, it started to peel as it dried, usually base will cause this problem in 4-24 hours but have seen it take 3-5 days to show up, it depends where the solvents were trapped at or in what coat of base.
3-4 days normally means solvent was trapped in the very first coat, overnight means base did not set long enough before clearing.

99% of times, airlines can cause the fish-eyes, if any cleaning was done at all.

Only applicator error other then flash times is the playing of bench chemist with all the crap added.
 
#9 ·
BarryK said:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Only applicator error other then flash times is the playing of bench chemist with all the crap added.
Can you clarify more on how the flash times were an error so we don't make the same mistake with that again? I'm pretty sure we followed what it said on the can, but I may be mistaken.
 
#10 ·
I was not there but results kind of speak for themselves.

Improper reducer speed for temp.
Low grade reducer.
Improper flash times between coats.
Piling on base to fill imperfections.
Or just took to many coats to cover and that requires more dry time.

Perfect example, I started painting the vette Saturday, laid two coats of VW silver activated base.
Sunday morning I laid first coat of blue ink coat, let each coat flash of exactly 60 minutes and all coats were activated, it takes four coats of the ink coat to hide, so I did five coats.
Plan was to let set 24 hours, wetsand base with 800 and shoot one more coat of base and clear.

Monday Morning, found two imperfections in base, spec on fender and spec on deck lid, did not want to sand base yet but did take some 600 wet to one spot and sanded OK but base was not totally cured yet. Tuesday night base sanded like a dream and will finish up tonight. The more coats, longer to cure.

Now do keep in mind this is no enamel converted crap base, its one of the best and we still have two days.
 
#11 ·
Here's what I have learned....

According to Google searches and posts on Mustang Forums and Jeep Forums, it's not uncommon for clears made by Trinity 1945 AKA www.paintforcars.com to peel off in sheets. Most people reporting the problem have seen the peeling take place 6 to 12 months after their vehicles were sprayed.

Given the overall "bad juju" that silicone can cause when it comes to automotive painting, adding the the Fish Eye Eliminator (FEE) to the base coat may have accelerated the peeling process.

None of the other people who have reported the peeling problems with Trinity products have gone into detail on the prep work steps that they took. Nobody else mentions the use of FEE or AP in their bases (this may be uniquely stupid to me).

At this point, I am lead to believe that the clear coat would have peeled off in sheets even if the prep work and application were done perfect.

As for the cloudy clear coat, I feel something was left out in my explanations above. Most of the truck had been wet sanded prior to the buffing that took place a few days a go when everything lifted. I don't know if that will change your opinion on what happened or not.

Regardless of what may have caused this horrible paint reaction, I hope others can and will learn from this thread and my mistakes.


As far as flash times are concerned, the way I was taught, and I realize this may have changed in the last 10 years, was to allow 20 minutes between coats. However, when spraying an entire vehicle, you can effectively go nonstop because it takes on average 20 minutes to circle the whole thing. We actually stopped and took considerable breaks between coats.
 
#12 ·
Never heard of the stuff you are using but don't think its a clear problem, could it be the conditions, I bet it is.

You gave good flash time but temp and humidity changes everything as well as grade and quality of reducer.

Fast reducer at 90 with 70% humidity will flash and dry to touch in a minute and at the same time trap or delay the other solvents from releasing and in effect, slow the dry time down, fast is not faster.

No matter if this clear is made by a bottom feeder or not and like I said , never heard of it, its not the fault of the clear.
Take a carefull look at the reasons I posted and see if you can figure out what happened to you. Way too many did it once, "pros" on forums and I already commented on how the clear looked and that pretty well states a true scenario of what happened. It is a hand print.

Bad clears usually go bad after 1.5-2 years if everything else was done right, due to lack of mils or poor UV additive package.
 
#13 ·
Something about flash times that I believe and may be wrong is that the published flash times are minimums of time needed to flash under perfect conditions and are applicable to collision shops where production needs to be pushed. Even going a day or so after basing before clearing is not going to hurt anything except the bottom line in a collision shop.

Sam
 
#15 ·
sand that base off ,its contaminated with sillycone,dont use that same gun again. its contaminated with sillycone..use wax & grease remover to clean the living crap out of the truck before you base it again....The proper way to use W&G is wipe it on with a soaking wet towel and wipe it off before it starts to evaporate with an other, dry ,clean towel.....Never use fish eye eliminator (ever) Its just a band aid on a severed artery...It's applicator error for sure, "He" put the crap in... "HE" sprayed the base too heavy(wet) and "HE" didnt wait long enough between coats (flash) All basic knowledge to a painter with at least 1-2 yrs exp....This guy is no painter (if he was he would have fixed it himself) ,A real painter would never let something like that leave the shop and would pay for the new materials himself ...I hope you didnt pay him much. If you buy new materials he'll probably screw it up again and say we're all full of crap he knows what hes doing...In reality you could have done a better job yourself in a home made tarp booth...
Try some new base like dupont or ppg (I've never heard of that stuff either) Do it yourself or get a new painter that'll take responsibility for his work...I've seen this stuff before ,all you'll get is excuses and its always someone elses fault...
Bottom line...the painter is responsible for quality control.....(any idiot can wave a gun back and forth),If someone sanded it wrong its still the painters fault for not catching it...and its his responsibility to fix it...Thats the difference between a "Painter" and someone that can paint...
To me,this guy sounds like a mechanic with a paint gun...painting without filters or old unchanged ones and not knowing any better.......And a long line of BS....I could be wrong ,but it sure sounds like it to me...That combined with a cheap crappy base is a recipe for disaster....Get some base and clear that everyone has used and likes,and stay away from the stuff nobodys ever heard of....even if its cheap ...50.00 more might have made all the difference....
 
#16 ·
Jaymez said:
Here's what I have learned....

According to Google searches and posts on Mustang Forums and Jeep Forums, it's not uncommon for clears made by Trinity 1945 AKA www.paintforcars.com to peel off in sheets. Most people reporting the problem have seen the peeling take place 6 to 12 months after their vehicles were sprayed.

Given the overall "bad juju" that silicone can cause when it comes to automotive painting, adding the the Fish Eye Eliminator (FEE) to the base coat may have accelerated the peeling process.

None of the other people who have reported the peeling problems with Trinity products have gone into detail on the prep work steps that they took. Nobody else mentions the use of FEE or AP in their bases (this may be uniquely stupid to me).

At this point, I am lead to believe that the clear coat would have peeled off in sheets even if the prep work and application were done perfect.

As for the cloudy clear coat, I feel something was left out in my explanations above. Most of the truck had been wet sanded prior to the buffing that took place a few days a go when everything lifted. I don't know if that will change your opinion on what happened or not.

Regardless of what may have caused this horrible paint reaction, I hope others can and will learn from this thread and my mistakes.


As far as flash times are concerned, the way I was taught, and I realize this may have changed in the last 10 years, was to allow 20 minutes between coats. However, when spraying an entire vehicle, you can effectively go nonstop because it takes on average 20 minutes to circle the whole thing. We actually stopped and took considerable breaks between coats.


You are a little hard headed on this one, you want to OPEN UP that head and read what has been told to you here.

"Could" it be that the clear is not the best in the world and it "could" be susceptible to peeling? Yeah, that is possible.

HOWEVER, and this is a BIG, a HUGE HOWEVER, you played junior chemist and created a mess!

FOLLOW THE TECH SHEETS!!!! Does it say anywhere in the clear tech sheet to add adhesion promotor? Does it say anywhere in the paint tech sheets to add fisheye eliminator? The answer is a gynormous NO!

Let me make this clear, I have not had fish eye eliminator in the my shop in about 25 years! YEARS ago I was taught what it was and how to avoid fish eyes and it was simply NOT ALLOWED in that shop. I haven't bought any since!

The clear is so rough, one of the MANY, MANY problems here may be that the clear couln't have "stuck" to the paint being it wasn't wet enough. The base being piled on and full of solvent and then the clear "laying" ON TOP of the paint because it is sprayed so dry. This of course is all a moot point being the paint was full of silicone!

But honestly, you REALLY need to open up to the suggestions given here and for goodness sakes, FOLLOW THE TECH SHEETS!!!!!

I know this post isn't very helpful as far as a "how to fix" this problem in detail. There is WAY too much to cover and way too much that still needs to be found out about what you actually did! Being you didn't follow the tech sheets on what you have told us, what else didn't you follow the tech sheets on? Was the base sanded, did you leave the base too long before clearing going past the "window"?

This is not a butt kicking or rude, mean spirited. If it comes off that way, I am sorry. The fact of the matter is you REALLY need to clear your head of every thing you have in there about painting and start from scratch or you will have something else happen the next time.

Brian
 
#17 ·
well i have to call bs on this one. no way in hell have you ever painted anything before. you can not add fisheye eliminator to the first coat of anything. if it's in the first it has to be in every coat from there on. your buying cheap paint and screwing with the formulas . leave the painting to those who take time to read the tech sheets and follow them.
 
#18 ·
Shine, some people just HAVE TO mess with stuff thinking they know better. I had a shop that I used to service that would do this stuff all the time! ALL THE TIME! He added retarder AND accelerator in the same paint! He changed mixing ratios, he mixed brands, he did everything you could dream up. And he had CATASTROPHIC failures all the time! Paint that you could wipe off with a rag and thinner. I remember one where bird poop damaged the paint. I met with the customer and went and got a rag with thinner on it and did a test....ONE WIPE took it to the primer! I AM NOT KIDDING, TO THE PRIMER!

I had done a little product test on a junk part in this shop a week or so before and I took the shop owner over to it and told him to try the rub test on it (same exact product a SS urethane). It did't budge one one bit, NOTHING was on the rag. He didn't believe that this could even happen, he didn't think this paint was that good, geee, if you follow the tech sheet is amazing what you can learn!

So even painting every day, some people never learn.

And that is what this is all about Jaymez, step back and take a look at what is being said here. If you have any passion what so ever in this stuff, STOP, step back and start over on your knowledge of this stuff, dump everything you know and start from scratch and for goodness sakes FOLLOW THE TECH SHEET!

Broan
 
#19 ·
Resolution....

After playing phone tag with a rep from Trinity 1945 for a day, they emailed me and asked what went wrong. I told them that all the clear came off the truck in sheets. They only had two follow up questions for me.

1) How long did I wait between paint and clear?

2) Did I want a complementary gallon of clear or a refund? I requested a refund and within 20 minutes it had posted to my PayPal account.

They didn't bother with trouble shooting, but, hey, I got some of my money back.


As for claims that neither of us have ever painted before, those are dead wrong. However, I will admit it has been at least 10 years since my last paint job. I forgot a huge portion of what I once knew.

I was never a professional painter. I learned Auto Body in high school and did a lot of painting back then. I made a huge mistake in assuming that everything I remembered was correct. I've spent the last 10 years trying to learn a variety of other trades. I forgot some details from this one. Did you ever forget? It happened to me.
 
#20 ·
I'm glad the refund, made you happy.

10-12 years ago I went into a shop with a jobber, we walked in and there were the painters, owner and a paint rep with a jobber, looking at two blew-up jobs.
The jobber i was with offered to come back and owner said no wait, so we stood back in corner and listened to the yelling and causing, the factory rep was greener then grass and had no idea what happened as 30 minutes went by, the rep says, I will give you a case of clear to take car of these jobs.

All was happy, rep leaves and the owner of the shop was thrill to death, I said well, the problem was not solved as no one brought up the real cause and any other car done this way will be coming back also, talk about a panic attack, when I explained the two things that could cause it, he could not leave a message for the jobber to come back, fast enough and could not get us out of there fast enough.

Glad your happy.
 
#21 ·
You are right, the cause has not conclusively been found. I'm a little disapointed that the Trinity rep didn't do any troubleshooting beyond asking me about flash times, but, the fact that they offered a refund tells me they knew their product had its problems.

Virtually everybody in this thread and in the treads on other boards, as well as the painters who have seen the truck and the clear in person, has given me a different explanation as to what went wrong.

Even after learning of the backyard chemistry, they still we waited too long between base and clear applications. That simply isn't true as we only took 20 minutes between layers. It's pretty difficult to break down a gun and clean it properly and get it reassembled in less time than that.

I'll make some visual upgrades to the truck over the next few months. Shave the tails, mold in the roll pan, etc. Strip the base off, seal it, and send it to a body shop for repainting next year.
 
#22 ·
pay close attention............ you CAN NOT spray clear over fe . period . it was not the paints fault . you created this problem all by yourself by adding fe to the base . throw that useless crap in the trash where it belongs .
 
#23 ·
shine said:
pay close attention............ you CAN NOT spray clear over fe . period . it was not the paints fault . you created this problem all by yourself by adding fe to the base . throw that useless crap in the trash where it belongs .
Shine, Yer just blowin in the wind again.
All they gotta do is get all the B/C with the FE in it off, and reshoot the damn thing the right way.
But, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO that ain't gonna listen.
They got and easier way.
I guess You, BarryK and myself don't know nuttin.
 
#24 ·
OK, ***'s the problem?

I have acknowledged my screw ups. I have pointed out that every single expert I have talked to has told me something completely different when they try to explain what went wrong.

Some have blamed the FEE. Some have credited the AP to the clear coming off in sheets instead of flakes, but, have not blamed that for the adhesion problems. NOBODY that I have personally spoken to at any of the body shops that I've visited have seen this happen before.

I contacted the supplier, rather than question me about my methods, they offered an instant refund. To me, that means they acknowledge a potential flaw in their product. They made no attempts to defend their products.

IF I paint the truck again, I will seal the whole damn thing before applying any paint.
IF I paint the truck again, I will not use AP or FEE at all.
IF I paint the truck again, I will not buy bargain basement paints or clear coats.

You are acting as though I am claiming to be a professional painter. I never made that claim. Yes, I have painted before. Yes, I have won awards for my paint. I had not picked up a spray gun in 10 years.

I still question blaming the FEE because I have used it before without a problem. I question blaming the AP because I have used that before without a problem. I acknowledge that paint technologies have advanced since I last sprayed a vehicle.

I blame backyard chemistry and using too much of the additives. I also blame low quality paint and clear products. If you disagree with my assessment after my own investigations and discussions, so be it. I won't bother asking any more questions.
 
#25 · (Edited)
IF I paint the truck again, I will seal the whole damn thing before applying any paint.
IF I paint the truck again, I will not use AP or FEE at all.
IF I paint the truck again, I will not buy bargain basement paints or clear coats.
Now your on the right track. You forgot the most important one, I will get the product data sheets for whatever I use, and read, understand and follow them before attempting to use. Start playing chemist and going against the manufactures recommendations, and there is always a chance it will end up biteing you. Throw that fee in the trash, and do a thorough job of prep, and no reason you should need that adhesion promotor either.

Chances of success are better with a good line, but lower cost lines can work just fine if you use them correctly. Many of the cheaper bases are enamel based, and besides being slower many don't have great coverage, so those added coats for coverage, very important to allow plenty of flash time. Now imagine spraying a dark color in an enamel based basecoat, lots of coats for coverage, and there is a high humidity level. You better leave a lot of flash time or your asking for trouble. Its not even a bad idea to allow the base to sit overnight and clear in the morning if you have the time. The bases I've used your still well within your window.
That said, I don't personally know any regular painter using trinity products, but I don't think you can really put the blame on the product with what has been admitted.
Don't rush, better to allow extra flash time when you have the time, just stay within product open windows. Using a high grade reducer is money well spent, and you must never use a lower grade reducer in a higher line base (ie omni reducer in deltron dbc). Not saying you did, but also would try to avoid ever using a fast reducer. Better to be on the slow side for conditions and allow added flash time then too fast.

We've all made our share of mistakes and will continue to, and anything to do with paint, its a pretty expensive learning experience. Admitting we did something wrong and learning from it though is how you advance. One reason even some painters will stick with one brand, because they used them enough to know them well and are most comfortable with. Even then you have to keep up on proper use, because its not uncommon for them to change something.

Time to start over, clean the living heck out of her, and try again going in with a little more knowledge on how to properly use the products this time before pulling the trigger.
 
#26 ·
Jaymez said:
You are right, the cause has not conclusively been found. I'm a little disapointed that the Trinity rep didn't do any troubleshooting beyond asking me about flash times, but, the fact that they offered a refund tells me they knew their product had its problems.

Virtually everybody in this thread and in the treads on other boards, as well as the painters who have seen the truck and the clear in person, has given me a different explanation as to what went wrong.
Giving you the clear doesn't mean CRAP about if the product had problems!

1. He gave it to you to get rid of you!
2. He gave it to you because that was the easiest way out!
3. He gave it to you because he DIDN'T know what went wrong!
4. He gave it to you because there was no teaching you how to actually fix the problem because you can't get it out of your head that it WAS the clear!

It was one or more of these reasons but it DID NOT mean that there was something wrong with the clear. BELIEVE ME, as a rep I gave away a lot of product as EVERY SINGLE rep does, and he does it for one or more of the above reasons.

I personally WANTED to find out what went wrong and TEACH the customer something so it didn't happen again. But some people, you just can't teach. I remember one who I was explaining what went wrong and he just couldn't grasp it. He said "What the hell are you saying"? I said "You F&%Ked up!" He said, "Ok, that I can understand".

But EVEN when I showed the painter how he created the problem I STILL gave them product. It is simple customer service to help the guy out.

So him giving you that clear means NOTHING as far as if the clear is good or bad. It is just "the thing to do" as with many other industries.

MANY painters can't accept that they did something wrong, even when you spell it out. Many can, they WANT to learn how to avoid that problem, I mean, do YOU want to have a complete paint job peel off agian? I wouldn't think so!

I always like to ask the question, do you think EVERY CAR ever painted with this product peeled off like that? No, if it did they would be out of business in a hurry. Nope, only SOME of them, why? Why only SOME of them? All the clear came from the same place! SOME of them failed because SOME of them were applied different.


You are getting a bunch of different responses because you are asking a thousand people! Of course you are getting all kinds of responses!

Ok, here, you are getting the SAME response from a bunch of profestional painters, one who used to be a rep as well AND a guy who owns a company who makes and sells clears! I am thinking you have a pretty darn good bunch to get info from here, and they ALL are telling you the same thing!

FOLLOW THE TECH SHEETS!!!!!!!! :D

Brian
 
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