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clear primers/rust preventatives

2K views 20 replies 5 participants last post by  deadbodyman 
#1 ·
chaps!

ive got an idea for a car i own, its been done before plenty of times but i dunno how/if its been done effectively

id like my bodywork to be baremetal (scuffed up and raw), ie no paint at all. as is the common reason previous people have done this - id like to show off the fact that it's all steel (rear quarters for mine are in most cases made of either rust or bog, or japanese newspapers, front guards too now that theyre rare)

the obvious problem though is reliably guarding against rust and i dunno how to do it. ive heard suggestions ranging from rubbing wd40 into it every couple of days, to waxing it, to 'just' clearing it, to finding the same colour silver as the metalwork and just painting it that colour, to perhaps forgetting the idea and buying a kia (no metal, no cry!)

some have claimed to have done it by just clearing, and it looks great for a while, but in more than one case ive been told of (by the handsome chaps who've done it) tiny rust spots appear after a short while, warranting a cut back to fix it up. the people ive talked to have said it could either be moisture coming from the compressors they used which is causing the rust (water traps fitted but not all of them are that great at removing it all). or perhaps that its just a limitation of the kind of coating

im guessing what i probably could do with is something along the lines of a clear primer. i had it explained to me by someone why a typical primer cant be opaque, at least not as i want it, but me being a less than intelligent person, ive largely forgotten

the only other thing ive thought of is perhaps a clear rust preventative that'll be durable enough to use for the exterior of the car, no idea how that'll go though

im not after an immaculate result, the bodywork is going to be less than perfect (rust repaired, but far from arrow straight). just something that'll go on, stay on, stop it rusting, show the metalwork underneath, and look awesome to boot :)

does anyone know of such a product or technique that id be able to achieve this with?
 
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#3 ·
stainless, there's good thinking. while im at it, probs easier to get the car CNC'd out of a solid block of stainless, anyone know someone who'll do it cheap for me :mwink:

ive been peeking around the internet and have seen two products; rustoleum clear and permalac

does anyone know anything about either?
 
#4 ·
deadbodyman said:
Stainless steel....Get a Delorian..Spend a lifetime.learning metal shaping or give up the dream....It'll be cheapest and fastest just to buy the Delorian...
Or how about a '36 Ford Tudor?
http://dalesdesigns.net/ss-ford.htm
Ford was able to build 6 of them before the tooling gave out. Appearently stainless is quite difficult to form.

On the other hand, clearing over the 'patina' does seem to work. I happened across this VW at this years Cache Valley Cruise In held in Logan Utah.

It had several coats of clear sprayed over the bare metal, rust and old paint. It didnt look like they tried to remove or neutralize the rust. I would think that the urethane clear would seal fairly well, and if it didnt it doesnt look like it would take too much work to touch it up.
 

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#8 ·
Yeah, I have to agree about the Rustoleum. As with many 'oil-based' paints, it has suffered from the removal of lead, and some other pigments and chemicals that once made it a great product. They still hype it, and I guess it's ok for some home projects, but it'll never hold up for an automotive job.
 
#9 ·
nice one, i dont think we really get rustoleum stuff in aus (in stores say) so no-one here would know to tell me that

thanks :D

im gunna do some test bits in the next couple days on spare panels, and leave em in the sun/weather and see how they fare after a few weeks to a couple months. first im trying basic clear coat to see how it holds up, so long as it adheres i reckon if i make sure i spray the panel as soon as i finish stripping it, it could be alright. if it fails, doesnt matter at least i know its not the way to go

ive been speaking to some people today about what i want to do, one chap suggested rather than looking only at automotive applications, perhaps something along the lines of marine protective coatings or something. ive got someone from PPG who will call back soon so i can have a chat about it with him

other than that, still open to ideas :D
 
#11 ·
nope, i'll be lookin em up now though :D thanks!

ok chat with PPG man today didnt go so well. either i didnt explain myself very well and perhaps he didnt think of any obscure alternatives, or he means it and im an idiot for trying

the general gist was that typical clear coats are not an effective 'seal' for bare steel (he kept calling it iron :\ i know its iron and carbon but errr). something along the lines of moisture vapour or something being able to penetrate the coating. actually he went as far as saying nothing in the world can seal against such. i dunno any better but that sounds pretty bold :sweat:

that, and he tells me bare steel begins to react with atmosphere the instant its cut back (which i sorta knew already), so even if left for a second before applying a coating, the surface will rust underneath over time. he said primers typically have a sacrificial metal content (zinc etc) which acts as a rust preventative (ie sacrificial anode). its 'impossible' to get a clear coating with such a feature, the best that can be done is an opaque coating which isnt quite what i want

still, some products claim to do the trick, which means ive got some questions left unanswered. not giving up just yet i think
 
#13 ·
i was thinking similar about aluminium, given that oxidises too but i dunno the specifics (of which im sure the devil is in the details)

my panelwork isnt going to be perfect, ive messed about with patching panels before and im not completely incompetent. that said, i couldnt hold a candle to people that can do it well though

just sent an email to michael. i didnt click till i saw the website, rodderslife is a great show! we dont have many car shows in aus, most of the ones we get are utter crap and dont last long :( hopefully he knows some people willing to entertain my idea
 
#14 ·
Back in the late 70's, when I was doing some rustproofing, we were taught that if you seal off the metal so air and moisture can't reach it, it will stop the rust....or it won't rust, period.

During this same time period, I was into 4-wheeling (Jeeps). Many earlier Jeeps were rust buckets. But....we had some hard-core trail riders around the area who used to pour or squirt their old drain oil into all the closed- off panels and obscure areas of their Jeeps....and there are still a couple of these old codgers around today, with Jeeps that have never rusted out.

I think what they did was along the same lines....sealing the air and moisture out of the hidden metal. I've seen lots of pictures of rat rods in the magazines with automotive urethanes on them....claiming to be the finish coat.

My take is that there hasn't been enough time elapsed to see if it's goiing to work, long term. Then again, to me, most rat rods are death traps anyway; so who cares if they rust out further. You see them all the time with open rusted holes, patches tacked on and never finished, etc. So who cares? I would think one of these auto clears would work for a good while; but make sure to get a good coating, so as to seal out the air and moisture. Good luck.
 
#16 ·
coolio, thanks dalesy id heard mention of urethane coatings before. the chap who told me about them said they tend to yellow. i havent looked into em so i dunno how true that is though

POR15 keeps coming up, im a touch worried their clear coats still dont act as an adequate seal for bare steel though. except for this one; http://www.por15.com/GLISTEN-PC/productinfo/GPCGG/

site is a bit slow but its called Glisten PC, and claims to be alright on all metal surfaces, including id imagine ferrous materials. worth a shot if it does what it says it does

ive also enquired about another product suggested by a chap on another forum called Bulldog; http://www.kleanstripauto.com/

will see what they say about baremetal applications, the person who suggested it said he used it for baremetal badges and hasnt rusted. his application was quite small though
 
#17 ·
ive got to testing at the mo

im trialling straight clear coat (which i know wont work, i had some lying about so thought why not)

and permalac which ive managed to get my mitts on

im using an old trunk lid from one of my cars, ive cut back two sections and applied permalac as directed (i waited 30mins before recoating though instead of a few hours :() and normal clear as kinda directed

they'll be left outdoors hanging on my backyard fence for a few months to see what happens :) i'll update with results, and if i manage to get my hands on another thing i want to try; gibbs
 
#18 ·
so far;

permalac has failed, followed directions etc but alas
clear has failed, as i knew it would but good to have it up there anywho

clear;


spots of rust first started after about a month, then more appeared, the spots developed from barely visible to as they are now, and are getting bigger so far as i can tell

permalac;


more rust spots than straight clear, a few big ones and many small ones. i daresay the small ones will develop into larger ones soon

next up is POR15 glisten, then perhaps gibbs when i sort out sea freight
 
#20 ·
coooool more stuff to try :D thanks

ive been reading about it, seems to be an average rust converter though, am i being simple in imagining most do the same thing? (convert iron oxide to a phosphate) reckon OSPHO is practically the same as most others?

australia hasnt really heard of it is all so id need some sent from A town. which isnt a problem, just if its the same as converters i can get over the counter itd be quicker to just do that

what do you think?
 
#21 ·
The important thing would be to etch the metal so the clear will stick,But for the rust spots try a second or third applicaton until the rust is completely dissolved.Converting it will turn the rust black ,that'll show ...or sand blast(brushed aluminum effect) but youll have to sandblast everything in the same direction so you have the same texture through out the whole car.400 grit da might do it too.either way you do it, etching will be what keeps the clear on the metal.
 
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