I'm making some changes to my '69 Camaro. I'm upgrading the transmission and clutch, along with a cam change, pistons and drive shaft. In another thread some people suggested that I might want to try the ClutchTamer with this new dual disc clutch to prevent it from breaking parts. I was wondering if anyone here had used one of these and if they had installed one in a '69 Camaro. I'm wondering how it would mount in this car and if it would fit behind the dash without modifying it. I've got a pretty nice dash and I don't want to do any more cutting on it. Below are my new McLeod RXT clutch and the dash in my car.
Obviously in-dash installs can be more aesthetically pleasing, but not everyone wants to cut up their dash. Here's an example of an early Camaro that used the universal underdash version of the ClutchTamer, quick and easy to remove when you want to return to stock...
I also have a stealth version that looks a little like a clutch switch when installed. The 3/4" dia threaded body is used to adjust the clutch's initial hit, a rotating dial on the left end adjusts the delay rate. Not as convenient to dial in, but basically hidden and no need for a pedal stop...
My car isn't a Camaro, but it's an example of an in-dash install using a bar style knob...
More than a few underdash installs have had hood release handles installed
The universal underdash version started out as kind of a gateway thing- easy to install for someone that doesn't want to commit to something permanent, but can later be converted to thru dash with a rectangular hole on dash assy's that have enough space.
An offset pedal bracket is also an option to move it farther away from your leg. The FOX Mustang specific underdash version features 2" offset from the pedal, sitting the cylinder/dash bracket alongside their hood release. The offset pedal brackets cause no problems at all, lots of quick NMRA Coyote Stock cars use them.
It works very well, just generally much more difficult to access. Mounting the Stealth to control the pedal is probably easiest depending on application, but it can also be mounted for control at the clutch fork. For that you would likely have to crawl under the car to change a setting.
For something like a street/strip car that occasionally uses nitrous, easy access is really nice to have. A setting aggressive enough to hold a nitrous hit will cause a big bog when launching NA. Also if you go to no-prep races, it's nice to be able to dial things back to work with a lower rpm launch and less power.
My car is just a street car that I'm taking to the track this summer for fun. I don't want to break anything, and what you said about the clutch I'm using makes a lot of sense. I'm afraid that this clutch is going to hit too hard and break parts or cause the tires to spin. It's a 427, 4 speed, 4.11 9 inch with 31/18.5/15 Hoosier street radials.
How far from the clutch pedal pivot point should the stealth tamer be mounted?
Can you give me some dimensions on the universal kit so I can see if it will fit under my dash? I'll try to see how much room I have tomorrow and then get one of these coming so I can get it mounted. Right now the engine is out and being disassembled, the transmission is on the bench and the pinion is out of the rear end. Might as well take something apart inside the car too.
I was wondering how much heat would effect the consistency of the clutch tamer. I know that normal brakes fade when they get hot, and carbon brakes get better when they are hot. I didn't know how much different the clutch would react when it's hot or cold. Have you had much experience with the clutch that I'm using?
The stealth version has 3/4" dia threaded body and 3/4" stroke. The body is 3-1/2" long, the plunger adds another 3/4". Generally around 2-1/2" to 3" from the pivot if controlling at the pedal. You can also install it to control from the bellcrank if that location would make things easier.
When you are casually driving around, the ClutchTamer doesn't really do anything that you would notice. I've used organic, ceramic, DF and sintered iron discs personally. Cold vs hot hasn't been a problem, but i usually do a quick little burnout to clean the tires that puts a little heat in the clutch.
Lots of customers making 700-1000hp using twins, RST and RXT's are a pretty common choice. Quite a few triple disc customers in the 1100-1500hp range too. I've even got a few using carbon/carbon clutches, no problem with heat there either. One carbon/carbon customer did have a problem burning up discs before the ClutchTamer install, but that was due to him attempting to manually slip with his foot. Very hard to slip consistently with your foot, and when you've got a really lightweight assy there's just no room for errors. After he installed a ClutchTamer i haven't heard of any more problems with melted parts.
As long as you stay away from the really lite clutches that were designed primarily for road racing or circle track, heat typically won't be a problem.
Without trying to sound too ignorant, what exactly is the purpose of a 'clutch tamer'? Don't you want the clutch to hit hard? I understand that a hard hitting clutch makes it tough to drink your cup of Dunkachino in traffic, but your car doesn't look like a car that you're stopping for a fast food drink in. Is it a way of building some clutch slippage into your clutch operating system?
Without trying to sound too ignorant, what exactly is the purpose of a 'clutch tamer'? Don't you want the clutch to hit hard? I understand that a hard hitting clutch makes it tough to drink your cup of Dunkachino in traffic, but your car doesn't look like a car that you're stopping for a fast food drink in. Is it a way of building some clutch slippage into your clutch operating system?
It's exactly what I hi-lighted. You get a very similar effect to the McCleod Sof-Lok clutch set-up used for racing, but instead of a metallic faced disc and the adjustment being all contained in the pressure plate assemble, the ClutchTamer gets you a similar result using any clutch package you might choose to use.
A "gorilla grip" clutch may seem like the ideal, but once you get off plain street tires and onto some stickier rubber or prepped pavement the tires are no longer the fuse that prevents blowing up driveshafts, u-joints, axles, ring & pinions, wheel studs and transmission shafts and gears.
I gave up on racing 4-speeds 25 years ago....because the cost of the $1400 McCleod clutch and/or the $$$ Jericho transmission was just too much when a full tilt racing TH-400 and Race converter were only $775 at that time.
I blew up several driveshafts, one rear axle housing and a couple SS 409 Chevy application clutches back in the 1980's, thinking that a death grip clutch was the way to go.
My pedal stop is about 3 inches from the pivot, so I could use that bracket for the mount. I hate to cut the bracket, but I've already cut up so much of this car I guess one more part isn't going to hurt anything.
Look what I got in the mail today! ClutchTamer Stealth! I can't wait to get this installed and test it. Got to get busy making some brackets to mount it. I won't get to test it very well until the end of July.
Got the ClutchTamer installed today. I removed the pedal assembly to make it easier to work on. For those of you with roll bars you understand how difficult it can be to get under the dash to work. I removed the seat, instrument panel, steering column and pedal assembly. It might be hard to see what is going on in the pictures, but I have the main bracket in my vice standing up vertical so I can get to the area where I need to work. I was going to install it in the hole where the bump stop is for the pedal, but it was a little lower than I wanted, so I made a little bracket to weld on. I think you can see what I did to make it work.
What a neat little device...I'd never seen one. Take the human element out of the last couple inches of pedal release and have better consistency. Wish I'd had something like that in cars where I've taught people to drive stick, they always have such a problem with having the clutch just start to grip then jerking their foot out all the way and either spinning the tires or stalling it.
Very nice install, if it were me I'd have added an angle brace to the mount and a small flat plate on the lever where it hits in case anything ever moves around a little, hopefully that won't be needed.
I thought about adding a brace, but was worried that it would get in the way when trying to make adjustments. I've got to get a 1 inch wrench in there to work the jamb nut. I like to brace things whenever possible, but I didn't see much room for it at the time. Looking at the pictures now it looks like I could have added a little piece, but I think the mount is pretty strong. If it bends then I'll take it out and try again. I'll play with a bunch before taking it to the track in July.
Here's a composite graph of hyd t-bearing pressure curves with one of my cylinder style ClutchTamers installed on a clutch pedal. The lines represent the equivalent of instantly releasing the clutch pedal to a certain "Initial Hit" point, then slowly releasing the pedal from that point on. Basically makes it much easier to consistently slip the clutch just the right amount for a good launch...
The horizontal part of the above graph basically represents "Delay", or how fast the clutch's reserve clamp pressure is allowed to come in. That's also adjustable...
Using a buffer eliminates the need for a perfectly trained left foot. The first one I ever used was made from a Wright Products VH440BL hydraulic screen door closer, purchased from a hardware store for less than $20. It had 10 turns of adjustment and produced this delay graph...
The DIY version works fine if you have room for a long cylinder.
I really had planned to be on the phone with you while at the track trying to tune this thing by now, but I still don't have my block and crankshaft back. I haven't even begun to assemble the engine and I only have about 5 weeks before this thing must be finished. I still have to get it on the dyno, get the clutch installed and dialed in and then I have to get everything in the car and order a drive shaft. That's before I can even begin to work out all of the bugs. I don't think I'm going to make it. My machinest has set me back at least a month.
Tuning the Stealth version is only a little different than the cylinder version, as initial hit is set with the unit's outer threads, delay is set by rotating the small knob on the end.
For initial tuning of a street/strip car, I now recommend a simpler method of rolling clutch drops in 3rd gear. Less wear/tear on the clutch and less chance of wheelspin, as wheelspin invalidates the process. The basic goal is setting clutch's initial hit to be only slightly more aggressive than the engine's WOT torque, no need to subject the car to standing starts to do that. Here's the general process...
Initially set the outer delay knob to "0". Next drive a less travelled backroad in 3rd gear at around 2500, push the clutch pedal against the stop, raise rpm to around 4500, then go WOT and watch the tach while quickly releasing the clutch pedal.
...If rpm quickly gets pulled down to match road speed in less than a second, unlock the outer jam nut and rotate the entire unit clockwise one or two turns and repeat the test until it doesn't.
...If rpm holds steady or quickly flares above 4500, turn entire unit counter-clockwise and repeat until rpm gets pulled down around a thousand rpm in a second. If you have an organic or Kevlar disc, or have a lightweight mini clutch, wait 5 min or so before repeating to protect the clutch from overheat.
Don't sweat an exact 1000rpm drop as it isn't critical. What you are looking to do is slow the rate that the clutch is pulling the engine down, a general downward trend in 3rd gear gets you close enough. With your initial hit ballparked, you can set the delay knob to around 2.
With rolling launches ballparked, you are ready to start dialing in full-on standing start launches at the track from a much safer starting point. With 1st gear standing starts the car will be accelerating at a faster rate, so the clutch stops slipping at the point where ground speed catches up with engine speed. That sync speed (when the tach starts climbing) generally happens in less than a second unless the car has poor power/weight or really tall geared.
Thanks. I've got the McLeod RXT clutch, which I think has ceramic pucks on it. I've got a new 22 pound McLeod steel flywheel and 4.86 gears with 31 inch tall Hoosier street radial tires. The M23 transmission has a 2.99 first gear. Engine is a 427 with what I hope turns out to be a little over 600 HP. I can't wait to drive this thing again. It's going to be a totally different car than what it was before.
I haven't been following my NMRA Coyote Stock guys close enough. So far this year my ClutchTamer customers have set*quick ET and top MPH at every race and have the current ET and MPH records. They have also*brought home*both winner*AND runner-up hardware*at every race this year with a single exception.
Coyote Stock is a heads-up factory sealed naturally aspirated 302 cid crate engine class. The engines are appx $6700 and run at 3175lbs on a .400 pro tree. They even flash the ecu's in the lanes to make sure everyone is on the same tuneup. With basically the same power/weight/tires*and spec ratios,*controlled slipping of the required diaphragm*clutch is pretty much the only*mechanical variable left*to make one car quicker/faster than the others.*Current class records are 10.075 / 131.86.
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